[streetwolf]

Am I correct that Sony used the autorun facility to secretly install their software? If autorun is disabled what would happen?

Now as far a a program (like DT) that installs a so called RootKit do you think the EULA would specifically state it's a RootKit? Do you think even if they did people would know what it was? Oh yeah, Russinovich will let us know. Champion of the people that he appears to be at least in his own mind.

All the EULA will say is that 'something' is being installed on their computer. DUH, you are installing a piece of software. How else can you install it if not onto your computer.

I personally think EULAs are a joke. Just like fine print people don't read them. The manufacturers and lawyers know this an rely on this fact. Also they are becoming mini novels in length and full of legalese.

[Leolo]

What I'd really like to know is:

Is it absolutely necessary to use rootkit techniques to make our legal backups run with Daemon Tools?

Rootkit techniques can impact the operating system stability, so they should be avoided at all costs.

Is there really no other way? None at all?

Regards.

[blueblueblue]

GRRRRR

So many people are talking about 'Rootkits' without having the faintest idea about 'Root(s)' ...

So, here is my explanation:

Rootkits are intended to slice celery roots .

With this in mind -> Daemon Tools is really, really amazing.

I will buy a second license! (present for my mother)

Have a nice day,
blue

[dino00]

Originally Posted by streetwolf

Am I correct that Sony used the autorun facility to secretly install their software? If autorun is disabled what would happen?

Hello to everyone. You are correct streetwolf. One of the ways Sony used to install its rootkit, was by using the autorun feature. You ask what would happen if a user decided to disable such a feature (and a wise decision that is)? As a matter of fact the rootkit would eventually be installed just the same. You see, in order for the cd to be played on a PC, you have to install the software that comes along with the given cd (that means you also install the rootkit). Great stuff, ain't it?
However, what most users don't know is that all those (expensive) tecnologies that these individuals have to come up with, can easily be circumvented with the use of Linux.

It's REALLY REALLY intollerable that you have to pay for a cd that isn't 100% compatible with all players, that can be copied only a given number of times and furthermore creates a huge security hole that can be (and has been) used by virus-trojan-spyware-adware writers in order for them to gain access to your system.
But the really stupid thing about it is that people continue to buy those protected cds, accepting this situation as being a normal one. Try to use the above example let's say for a book.
You go to a library, you choose a book and just when you're ready to pay it, you see a sticker on it saying "By buying this book you accept the following:
1) The font used does not guarantee this book to be leggible by all people
2) This book can be read an unlimited number of times in your living room but only up to 3 times in all other rooms or houses
3) You are not entitled to use or copy any phrases from this book
4) This book can give away your vault's combination to anyone who opens it. "
Now take away the sticker thing (a lot of cd son't even have that) and there you have it. Would anyone consider this normal? Would anyone EVER buy a book like that? Nevertheless there are people that still byu cds like that

For LocutusofBorg

I'm extremely happy to see an answer like this to Mr. Russinovich's article on Daemon Tools. I too have come across this one and it got me really angry.
However Locutus I believe you should make a more rigid stand as far as the rootkit acusation (I could have used another term but this is what this article was all about) goes.
I.e. Daemon Tools DOES NOT contain ANY FORM of rootkit.
This is an extract from the definition of rootkit in Wikipedia:

"A rootkit is a set of software tools frequently used by a third party (usually an intruder) after gaining access to a computer system. These tools are intended to conceal running processes, files or system data, which helps an intruder maintain access to a system without the user's knowledge"

As can be seen, the way Daemon Tool's functions are used, serve an entirely different purpose that is not even close to the definition of a rootkit.
Using the way that Mr. Russinovich's thinks (or tries to induce other people to think) one could say that antiviruses are using virus tecnology just by the fact they contain a portion of virus signatures. It's clearly false, and a sign of great ignorance (or perhaps something else?) on behalf of Mr. Russinovich.

This said I'm appologizing for the length of my post and end here.
Cheers to everyone!

[Kinlaadare]

Well said...

People usually forget that "toolkits", or whatever we could name that, are just technologies... and by the way they are not bad nor good.

Like science, it's its use which is good or bad...

[mwb1100]

Originally Posted by dino00

You ask what would happen if a user decided to disable such a feature (and a wise decision that is)? As a matter of fact the rootkit would eventually be installed just the same. You see, in order for the cd to be played on a PC, you have to install the software that comes along with the given cd (that means you also install the rootkit).

Sorry to drift the thread even further, but I'd like to correct this: if autorun is disabled, the rootkit would not install and the user has no DRM at that point - he can rip the tracks with no trouble (unless the DRM software's installer gets run some other way).

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=965

[DarkG]

Funny that Mr. R. doesn't mention any thing about a possible security risk caused by DT, which would be the only thing a DT user would be concerned about, but goes on to find it unethical...
As for the way DT works i think all users are actually ok with it, unlike Sony's XCP..

[mwb1100]

One thing that the DT team might consider is an option to install in 'stealth mode' or not.

For people (like me) who are not gamers, the anti-blacklisting capabilties of DT are not the top consideration.

So, like the option of whether or not to install the adware in the free version, maybe give an option to not install the hiding technology.

[Development]

I state officially that "DAEMON Tools contains NO rootkits".
This article looks like a "piece of incompetent rubbish from a competent guy". Maybe some people, includung Mark Russinovich, have biased understanding of what rootkit is. Yes, our software contains registry hooking mechanisms in order to protect own registry from alteration by malicios software - but this is just technology only used not only by rootkits but also by antivirus and other applications,
including Mark's own Regmon. If he claims it is a rootkit - we claim back Regmon is rootkit too.
We have right to decide ourselves what technology to use in our software and what cares us in the least is the opinion of Mr. Russinovich about it. As said - it is just his opinion only.
If he has too much free time and is willing to go into flames about ethics then he definitely chose wrong piece of software.

[evlncrn8]

regmon doesnt hide keys though, it just reports registry access, daemon tools DOES hide keys, so the comparison doesnt quite fit, as for having the right to use whatever technology you want in your own code, sure thats fine, however hiding it from the user is the issue, not the fact that it is done.