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billybwilde
16.02.2006, 12:06
Everyone says you can opt out of the ad-ware installation, but I don't see how. When you run the installer, if neither the box for SearchBar or SaveNow is checked, it will now allow you to install.

Is there any way to install it without letting EITHER SearchBar or SaveNow to be installed? The installer forces you to choose one or the other to install.

Copytrooper
16.02.2006, 15:45
Just disable Daemon Tools Search Bar checkbox in installation dialog and no adware will be installed.
It is still possible to avoid installation of Search Bar and SaveNow by cancelling related EULAs (i.e. disable the "I know this download comes with ..."-checkboxes at bottom of those EULAs), or - if you want to check out the Search Bar alone without SaveNow - just accept Search Bar EULA and cancel SaveNow EULA.
And even if the adware is installed, you can remove it via control panel -> software add/remove.
We also have an own forum for everything about the adware, so I moved your thread here; due to the explanations above, your other thread is obsolete.

billybwilde
17.02.2006, 01:54
The installer definately infers that you must install one or the other. Maybe we're talking about different things, but I'm talking about the window that starts with "Daemon tools is not freeware. Supported by yada yada yada". It has a checkbox. If you un-check the box for the SearchBar and click next, then un-check the box for SaveNow, the "Install" button becomes greyed out. I figured out that daemon was already running, and just closed the window... but to the average user, they would think daemon had not yet been installed.

Uninstall MIGHT work to get rid of SaveNow, but it certainly will not get rid of the dozen other programs it loads on your system. We could debate the truthiness of WhenU's PR claims, but for those who don't know how to avoid the ad-ware if they don't want it my solution certainly is not obsolete until someone fixes the installer to allow a proper opt-out.

Copytrooper
17.02.2006, 10:44
Gosh, what you are talking about is the actual adware installation - of course the install button will be greyed out if you disable both Search Bar and SaveNow installation - there is nothing to install anymore, thus cancel is the only available option to go from there (besides going back of course). Therefore no adware will be installed if you cancel here either. Daemon Tools installation is already finished before you get the adware installer messages.
What I am talking about is the Daemon Tools installation dialog (see picture) - if you disable the Daemon Tools Search Bar checkbox no adware will be installed:

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5975/installer5oe.png

billybwilde
17.02.2006, 17:26
OIC, I used the default install at that point and didn't select custom. Whomever is in charge of the installers should make an extra checkbox in the SearchBar installer, that does not install anything but still allows you to click "Install". Either that or just a note on that page that says "Click Cancel to install just Dameon Tools" (since it's already installed).

I think only 5% of users would be smart enough to click Custom at the start to disable ad-ware. The other 95% would get frustrated for awhile at the SearchBar installer, and then either install one or the other, or just shut down the computer and realize it's installed. A clear way out at that point in the user interface would be helpful; I saw at least two other posts on this board that were describing the exact same bug, but could not convey the nature of the problem.

Copytrooper
17.02.2006, 17:32
There is no need to change the installer type to custom, it'll be changed automatically if the Search Bar checkbox is disabled.

hoqenishy
18.02.2006, 18:02
Holy crap!

It's unchecking ONE SINGLE BOX!

How you people can even manage to use emulation software is a miracle in itself :confused:

billybwilde
20.02.2006, 17:39
Holy crap!

It's unchecking ONE SINGLE BOX!

How you people can even manage to use emulation software is a miracle in itself :confused:

I decided to rerun the installer just for giggles. There is an uncheck box at the beginning, but the options APPEARS legitimate. There is no indication it is ad-ware at this point. In fact it appears to be a plugin that enhances the features, not software that is patently ad-ware.

The first mention of WhenU (an automatic red flag) is in the spyware installer. At this point there is no clean way to opt out.

The whole design plays off the deception, not ignorance of users. Many packages include adware but label it as such and give an easy way out. It's similar to how Real used to hide the free version of RealPlayer. If you went to their site, you have to scroll and hunt for the link, dodging the paid version at least three times. This installer employs a similar tactic to achieve an end result; get paid installs no matter what.

Does it make you feel smart belittling other people? I've seen your same post several other times.

FYI, I've been converting and burning images since the first version of Toast. How long have you been around, again?

vatras90
20.02.2006, 18:48
I decided to rerun the installer just for giggles. There is an uncheck box at the beginning, but the options APPEARS legitimate. There is no indication it is ad-ware at this point. In fact it appears to be a plugin that enhances the features, not software that is patently ad-ware.

The first mention of WhenU (an automatic red flag) is in the spyware installer. At this point there is no clean way to opt out.

The whole design plays off the deception, not ignorance of users. Many packages include adware but label it as such and give an easy way out. It's similar to how Real used to hide the free version of RealPlayer. If you went to their site, you have to scroll and hunt for the link, dodging the paid version at least three times. This installer employs a similar tactic to achieve an end result; get paid installs no matter what.

Does it make you feel smart belittling other people? I've seen your same post several other times.

FYI, I've been converting and burning images since the first version of Toast. How long have you been around, again?
A part from the download section:

In order to support FREE distribution of DAEMON Tools we highly encourage you at least to try out this optional software! (you can remove it anytime later when you wish: via Control Panel-> Add/Remove Programs)
The first step must be ALWAYS to read the description. ALWAYS. Then you can install it. There IS a way to opt out the "spyware" installer. SIMPLY UNCHECK THE BOX!

Copytrooper
20.02.2006, 20:12
The first mention of WhenU (an automatic red flag) is in the spyware installer. At this point there is no clean way to opt out.
The huge "Cancel"-button at bottom right is not enough to "opt out"!?

nyeates1
07.03.2006, 23:52
I would have to agree with billybwild here.
It is unclear.

I personally read the download web page and knew that the choice was coming and was able to make an educated decision ( I decided to try it, but my virus detector deleted it lickity split! Oh well )

Working with people that are not as technically minded, I can see where this is very confusing. They want a quick, easy, no fuss download and install. I want that too, take a look at most mac program installations for an example.

And yes, ppl that are not technically skilled will use this software, should use this software, and the entire community here benefits from more of any kind of users. It means a wider growing audience, more use, more money, more attention, more reasons for the authors to keep up the good work.

Solution
The download page should be simple. No explanation. But it doesnt really matter. I love how firefox distributes its software. SOO easy to download. No explanation needed, no reading of the page, nothing. And it never changes. There are of course more options else where for other downloads of firefox.

THEN, when you are acutally IN the installer, and BEFORE you give the user the option for adware, you let them know about the ad ware. You must also force them to make a decision or acknowledgement, otherwise many users assume default is normal.

So an example would be, as the second screen have it be JUST about the installation of the adware. Make it concise, and simple, maybe 2 or 3 sentances. Make the user interact. The next button is greyed, unless they do something to acknowledge or prove that they have read the text.

laboye
17.04.2006, 01:09
I registered for the forums to discuss just this...

Adware is not something that should be permitted to install on an end user's PC. Adware's agreements are always unclear and almost always deceiving. WhenU is a company dedicated to pushing ads to computers based on their browsing habits, as all ad-ware providers are. Many users also do not read that agreement, or any install text at all (for that matter). To install adware by default with this tool just seems wrong to me. I agree that the 'Daemon Tools Searchbar' sounds more like a 'legit' plugin than it does spyware. That is misleading...

Complicating the process by making users deselect this segment and otherwise forcing the installation of malicious software. Adware is crap! Its something that 'tricks' end users.

My solution is either resort to other methods of income or switch to a non-adware type tool. Google Toolbar, Yahoo Toolbar or other legitimate tools.

For this reason, I WILL NOT download the new version of DAEMON Tools. I shall continue to run 3.47 until this is eliminated.

Difranco
28.09.2006, 02:22
People opted to download and install Daemon Tools based on the applications functions and features.

People did not download Daemon Tools to have ads pushed to their browser based information being gathered about them without their knowledge. There in lies the rub.

WhenU and SaveNow should explictly be announced as included in the binary at the download page. These seperate programs should have to be a mandatory opt-in for them to be installed.

EULA's were primarly designed get people to agree to not use more copies of a given software package than they purchased or to agree to steal code out of it, etc. Not as a 'if you install this software, I own your computer and everything you do it' agreement.

I fight this crap everyday at work on over 4500 workstations, what a pain in the a$$.

Copytrooper
28.09.2006, 09:37
User MUST agree to WhenU EULA in order to install the adware, AFTER Daemon Tools installation is finished. At this point user can still cancel WhenU EULA and NO adware will be installed, even if user "forgot" to disable Daemon Tools search bar checkbox in Daemon Tools installation dialog. Moreover the bundled adware IS CLEARLY announced in our download section.

al1uk
28.09.2006, 13:26
If you can't uncheck one box, I wouldn't be surprised if you don't have a ****load of adware on your pc already :rolleyes:

Jito463
28.09.2006, 16:13
WhenU and SaveNow should explictly be announced as included in the binary at the download page.
I'm sorry, did you mean something like this from the download page?


This version has an option to install client-side software applications (DAEMON Tools Searchbar and Save Now) that deliver a limited number of behaviorally targeted and contextually relevant coupons, ads and comparative shopping results directly to consumers desktops - without compromising the privacy, security or smooth functioning of peoples computers! No URL hijacking or redirects!

lost11
01.10.2006, 18:44
man i was thinking daemon tools itself had adware with it.

but it was the toolbar. most toolbars are adware, i dont know whats the big deal, just don't install it. i'm an idiot and i was able to figure that out without reading anything.