Any possibility of a revamp of DT Pro agreements?

[kbirger]

Please forgive me, but I'm going to have to put in my two cents and some people may not like it.

I honestly don't like where this is going. So far DT Pro looks like DT with a Cloned Alcohol UI.

It can create images. Great... But there are several programs that have proven themselves over the course of time to do this, and a lot of them are free.

DT is nice over Alcohol because it's small and unobtrusive. The selling point of Pro was the ability to have virtual IDE drives, which happens to still in developement.

I'm afraid what I'm seeing right now is a new software with obtrusive piracy protection and few useful features. The irony is that DT is meant to rid people of obtrusive piracy protection. I suggest you guys rethink your business plan, because I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that something's wrong here.

And before a mod chastises me, I'm aware that you can do whatever you want, and that no one is forcing me to buy it, but I feel that my input should be noted as a long-time enthusiast of your software.

[DariusIII]

I think you guys are overreacting.Qazarr has some good questions, B had good answers in his first post, but after that all went down the drain.Maybe a lock would be good AFTER one of developers or admins answers the questions.

[obvious]

Agreed, and just to stir it up, ß can kiss my ass. :evil:

[phoenix]

shut up already!

I think that goes for more than one person, Qazarr has questions that he would like answers to, Alc (Admin) was doing this initialy, and then a whole bunch of people jump on the band wagon, if this is how you want to treat new users of the software or people who are first coming to this forum then your doing no justice to the developers of this software, i think there are two types of questions asked on support forums.

1. The type of question that normal users of the software are able to help with.

2. The type of question best left to Admin\Development to answer. and not people who think they may know the answer or who for some reason think they can second guess Development.

[joeboy]

shut up already!

I gave up on this thread long ago, too much to read! ....

[ß]

shut up already!

[Qazarr]

looks like you totally don't comprehend what purpose vIDE will serve. it does not in any way have anything to do with image creation - or image reliability.

The virtual IDE driver is to make most recognition software ineffective, yes? This is rather directly related to how difficult it is to create a functioning image. What use have I for 1x speed securom copies if it's running on an IDE driver that nullifies the protection in the first place?

No, I think I do understand, it's just that you're kind of fanatically attacking me on semantics.

no you're not. several people have tried. you are angry because dt pro has activation. and want people of similar taste to you, to "convince" you to forgo any discrimination towards online activation and buy the product based on whatever features you could not do without.

Ugh, great. Now you've gotten all upset and started telling me what I'm thinking and demanding that I'm "angry". I think this conversation of ours is over, I'm sorry for whatever I did to draw ire.

and at this stage you seem to not have found any such features. move on. at the end of the day it comes down to $27. nothing. there's no if or but, no matter what you say. so a reasonable person would assume that even if they buy the product and hate it, $27 is a reasonably cheap "risk". you sound like a broken record: "convince me, convince me." NO - convince yourself, or let the program do it for itself. dt pro can't do it ? too bad for it. maybe a few updates/versions later it may or may not convince you. reevaluate it further down the road.

Too bad? "NO"? I'm glad you're not in charge of the sales department around here! I'd thank you if you would be so kind as to quit trying to help me now, respectfully of course. Though I thank you for your, albeit derisive, discourse.

I apologize if my questions about this software have been offensive to anyone. I was hoping to snag a reasonable person to answer some of them... but I guess I should quit while I'm ahead, having for the most part had my questions answered. I'm sure the features pages will be updated with the rest of it eventually.

[obvious]

I think at this stage Qazarr is hoping to be convinced by some concession from the developers.....which seems reasonable enough.

One sentence that stood out and that I'm totally in agremeent with is:-

I hope that perhaps eventually DT Pro's "update" feature is the only thing that will require key activation and validation.

....after all it is the constant battle to remain current in the disk cloning wars that is the biggest incentive to pay. There will always be a need to upgrade.

[ß]

Thus far, the only thing available to DT Pro that is not available on other less restrictive software packages is its IDE driver that may make image creation much easier and more reliable...

looks like you totally don't comprehend what purpose vIDE will serve. it does not in any way have anything to do with image creation - or image reliability.

I'm open to being convinced, though.

no you're not. several people have tried. you are angry because dt pro has activation. and want people of similar taste to you, to "convince" you to forgo any discrimination towards online activation and buy the product based on whatever features you could not do without. and at this stage you seem to not have found any such features. move on. at the end of the day it comes down to $27. nothing. there's no if or but, no matter what you say. so a reasonable person would assume that even if they buy the product and hate it, $27 is a reasonably cheap "risk". you sound like a broken record: "convince me, convince me." NO - convince yourself, or let the program do it for itself. dt pro can't do it ? too bad for it. maybe a few updates/versions later it may or may not convince you. reevaluate it further down the road.

[Qazarr]

Regarding question 2, the image mounting functionality of DT Pro will still work, but the image creation functionality will be disabled if it cannot contact the activation servers within 25 days of the last contact (I originally thought it was 2 weeks, but Alco would know better than I).
As for your 3rd question, you aren't buying a "subscription" to DT Pro, you're buying a 1-year license for DT Pro. After that, you have to buy another 1-year license if you want any further updates. The license is the same price each year. Alcohol does the same thing, though admittedly they do offer a lifetime license. And it's possible that the DT team may offer lifetime licenses in the future. But for now, it's a 1-year license.

Ah, thanks. I'll still be able to use the software, I just won't be able to create images. Will the (not yet implemented) IDE driver be shut off as well, though?

You are of a position to give "official" responses, though, right? I'm sorry if I seem pedantic here but the product description pages are so very, very skimpy with their information that I'm very eager to have these things settled before agreeing to the purchase.

I guess it's a marketing decision to repeatedly say "it's not a subscription, it's a license" but, as I said, pragmatically there is no difference if we want to continue using the software for more updated games with newer copy protection. You kind of make it sound like we just need a one year license and we're set, which isn't the case. However, I don't mind the yearly LICENSING FEE, if that's the way I should phrase it. It seems fair, particularly if the IDE functionality is truly that much of a reduction in headache.

If a lifetime license may be available in the future that's some incentive for me to wait and see if this happens, unless of course there were plans to reduce the cost of a lifetime membership based on existing license purchases. I would be very interested in a lifetime license.

I would have been very glad to support DT team by buying the Pro version, but, up to now, I find rules too inconvenient.
I shall wait until they become more easy-going (may be...).
Regards.

I would gladly pay for Daemon-Tools as a thanks for the many good years of not needing my discs in drive to play my games, but not without seconding the notion about requiring internet access for full functionality.
Yell at me all you like, but even Microsoft is not so bold.
In response to the other post, I never had difficulty creating a working image of my Supreme Commander disc using some other <unnamed> 3rd party software, do not use Alcohol, and my image took about the same time DT Pro claims to have taken to make the same image.
My only benefit for paying is IDE drive support that is promised in a future release.
Currently, I don't need IDE drive support, so the whole issue becomes moot however since I have seen the question neither asked nor answered directly, does anybody know if IDE drive functionality will also be taken away if internet support is not maintained? I would hope that since the IDE drive functionality would be more geared toward reading of images than creating, it should not be adversely affected.
~Another happy customer

You two seem to exemplify my own concerns here for the most part. I, too, also believe that at least by virtue of convention that internet reliance will eventually be removed because it isn't always possible for consumers to keep active connections going. It's frustrating as a consumer to run into this sort of thing, but it's kind of difficult either for us to understand the programmers' motivations for this completely, or for them to understand our aversion to it.

I hope that perhaps eventually DT Pro's "update" feature is the only thing that will require key activation and validation.

why do you need to be sold on it ?

Because I'm looking to buy it, perhaps, and I'm trying to find reason to offset the necessity of internet activity.

***EDITED OUT FOR CHARACTER LIMIT***

at this moment in time there are only two commercially available programs that can create working tages images of modern games. dt pro is one of those, and i believe, the far better one. (around one minute and thirty second for the tages dpm as opposed to several hours with a competitor's product) {cd space, a third, such program was the first to support tages but is now well and truly abandoned}
tages, you ask ? yes a commercial protection system for software, mainly used on games. several new games use this protection right now and there are more games to arrive with tages. alcohol at this stage does not support this protection.
another reason ? how about that it's yet another image making program using it's own engine, different to alcohol and other software. what does this mean ? i'll explain by giving you a personal example. supreme commander, a pc game, using sony's securom protection is a game i (and several other users) had trouble making an image with other software, i did eventually manage a working image but it took over three hours. this was a few months ago before dt pro. so obviously, i used another program. after dt pro was released i remade the image to see if dt pro can make it quicker and also extract a finer MDS, because even thou my earlier image worked the MDS looked a little rough. (securom is reasonably tolerant) well sure enough, dt pro finished the image in 19 minutes flat and the MDS was perfect. so, having multiple programs that do the same job is a good choice for end users. one doesn't work ? try another.
last but not least $US27 for 90% of dt pro users is peanuts.
how do i know this ? i do, based on many factors. many users freely in their signatures or otherwise show what hardware they use, proudly. from there, i can safely deduct, that what they spend on their hardware (assuming it's not stolen) is less then 1% of the cost of dt pro. also if most dt pro users use the program to make game images, as opposed to non protected discs, and i would place this audience at around 75%-95%, then it is safe to assume that they have several original game discs purchased for anywhere from $US10-$US50 each. so again, what's $US27?? a pizza meal ? a couple of pack of smokes ? a shitty bottle of wine ? you get the idea. (you said it yourself, that you used dt for years - how about a moral donation just for that, and you still get dt pro to pissfart around with.)
engage me in conversation and i will reply in kind.

It's not a matter of affording it, it's a matter of paying for a service that I can't really use to its fullest extent. I approach every purchase I make from this perspective, otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford the luxury of purchasing a software package primarily out of appreciation for its creators. $27/year is the cost of DT as it is, and that seems more than reasonable for what it does. Its restrictions, however, prohibit my free use of the software... which is exactly what drew me to DT in the first place, the free use of software I payed for in the first place. It's very counterintuitive for me to see DT Pro have some protection on it that is more of a hassle than most CD Protection, and it's not something that really "sits well" with me.

This thread has been very helpful in explaining the features that weren't readily available on the main site or the publisher's site though, and for all of its information I am quite thankful. I'm definitely sold on the features of the software. I can only tentatively assume, though, that I will ever own DT Pro at this time for its limitations.

If DT Pro offered a lifetime license for ~$150 and didn't have the bi-weekly "check in" requirement for my own software, I'd own it right this instant. No ifs ands or buts about it. As it is, what it feels like is that I'm being asked to lease the software, and that if I ever go outside of my electronic dog collar range it will quit working. That's the issue, and when I ask to be "sold" I'm asking for rationale that supports me giving up the freedom of ownership of this software for the features.

Thus far, the only thing available to DT Pro that is not available on other less restrictive software packages is its IDE driver that may make image creation much easier and more reliable... and it isn't even implemented. I'm a fan of DT though, so I'm willing to put up with mediocrity in some areas just out of appreciation for the years of support for the original DT. I just don't think I'm quite willing to pledge such dedication to it that I would succumb to the very limitations that I am trying to avoid from the CD Protection crap I'm trying to get around. The whole reason I got DT in the first place was to secure the ownership of my own software. I'm open to being convinced, though.

[PegHorse]

I would gladly pay for Daemon-Tools as a thanks for the many good years of not needing my discs in drive to play my games, but not without seconding the notion about requiring internet access for full functionality.
Yell at me all you like, but even Microsoft is not so bold.
In response to the other post, I never had difficulty creating a working image of my Supreme Commander disc using some other <unnamed> 3rd party software, do not use Alcohol, and my image took about the same time DT Pro claims to have taken to make the same image.
My only benefit for paying is IDE drive support that is promised in a future release.
Currently, I don't need IDE drive support, so the whole issue becomes moot however since I have seen the question neither asked nor answered directly, does anybody know if IDE drive functionality will also be taken away if internet support is not maintained? I would hope that since the IDE drive functionality would be more geared toward reading of images than creating, it should not be adversely affected.
~Another happy customer

Ok you are my friend, i think exactly same as you
However to test all functionnality i have installed the version with Adaware.

[PegHorse]

I'll wait that team offer a lifetime licenses, not a one year
While waiting that i'm using the adaware version.

[strchild]

Hmmm,..

I would gladly pay for Daemon-Tools as a thanks for the many good years of not needing my discs in drive to play my games, but not without seconding the notion about requiring internet access for full functionality.

Yell at me all you like, but even Microsoft is not so bold.

In response to the other post, I never had difficulty creating a working image of my Supreme Commander disc using some other <unnamed> 3rd party software, do not use Alcohol, and my image took about the same time DT Pro claims to have taken to make the same image.

My only benefit for paying is IDE drive support that is promised in a future release.

Currently, I don't need IDE drive support, so the whole issue becomes moot however since I have seen the question neither asked nor answered directly, does anybody know if IDE drive functionality will also be taken away if internet support is not maintained? I would hope that since the IDE drive functionality would be more geared toward reading of images than creating, it should not be adversely affected.

~Another happy customer

[ß]

I'm having a much harder time being "sold" on the software after reading a bunch of unreliable posts about it. I've gone from "yes, yes, god yes!" to "what the hell is this?"

why do you need to be sold on it ?

dt pro is a software program, like many before it, that lets end users create images of software discs. (ie: like alcohol or virtual cd or virtual drive or cd mate or even nero. nero, in so far as it can create basic non protected images)

the difference between regular daemon tools (available for free for many years for private use), as pointed out already, is that the pro is like a parent version to dt. it has everything dt has and then some. (ie: it actually makes images as opposed to just mounting them)

if you already use alcohol or another program to create your images, and then use regular dt to mount them then you may not actually need dt pro right now. the main reason that i purchased dt pro was two fold; to support the dt team for doing a great job in the war for customer choice, and because of the even then announced tages support. then being years ago.

sounds like you really want to be convinced. there's no need for that. but alcohol since you mention it also has activation. so perhaps a reason would be thus: on your current system you would have less "clutter" because dt pro now replaces alcohol for making images (should you choose so) and also regular dt for mounting since dt pro also has a built in virtual drive. and at the moment the v4.10.0215 dt pro virtual drive is more "enhanced" (read: powerful) then the current v4.09.01 of regular dt. (ie: tages games that crash the system)

to aliviate your fears, you can have both regular dt and dt pro installed and running on the same setup (i have done this, in fact i have several other 3d party virtual drive programs on one of my test beds for testing purposes.) so when you go to south america and dt pro "shuts down" you can simply mount your images using regular dt.

at this moment in time there are only two commercially available programs that can create working tages images of modern games. dt pro is one of those, and i believe, the far better one. (around one minute and thirty second for the tages dpm as opposed to several hours with a competitor's product) {cd space, a third, such program was the first to support tages but is now well and truly abandoned}
tages, you ask ? yes a commercial protection system for software, mainly used on games. several new games use this protection right now and there are more games to arrive with tages. alcohol at this stage does not support this protection.

another reason ? how about that it's yet another image making program using it's own engine, different to alcohol and other software. what does this mean ? i'll explain by giving you a personal example. supreme commander, a pc game, using sony's securom protection is a game i (and several other users) had trouble making an image with other software, i did eventually manage a working image but it took over three hours. this was a few months ago before dt pro. so obviously, i used another program. after dt pro was released i remade the image to see if dt pro can make it quicker and also extract a finer MDS, because even thou my earlier image worked the MDS looked a little rough. (securom is reasonably tolerant) well sure enough, dt pro finished the image in 19 minutes flat and the MDS was perfect. so, having multiple programs that do the same job is a good choice for end users. one doesn't work ? try another.

last but not least $US27 for 90&#37; of dt pro users is peanuts.
how do i know this ? i do, based on many factors. many users freely in their signatures or otherwise show what hardware they use, proudly. from there, i can safely deduct, that what they spend on their hardware (assuming it's not stolen) is less then 1% of the cost of dt pro. also if most dt pro users use the program to make game images, as opposed to non protected discs, and i would place this audience at around 75%-95%, then it is safe to assume that they have several original game discs purchased for anywhere from $US10-$US50 each. so again, what's $US27?? a pizza meal ? a couple of pack of smokes ? a shitty bottle of wine ? you get the idea. (you said it yourself, that you used dt for years - how about a moral donation just for that, and you still get dt pro to pissfart around with.)

engage me in conversation and i will reply in kind.

[johngalt]

if u are not online for more than 25 days you can revoke your licence online and then you get a new one.

Ahhh, so that will work if something were to happen and the Image creation were disabled. Makes sense.

Thanks for clarifying that - I wasn't sure but now I am.