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Thread: I for one can wait

  1. #1

    Default I for one can wait

    This is the first time I have registered, but I've been coming here since v2.11.

    The sole reason that I registered is because I have to say that I find the public "outcry" against the delay of Daemon Tools V4 offensive. I work as a programmer, and have had to put up with the non-programmer attitude of "is it done yet?" for years. The sheer gall of some people is attrocious, considering that many of the users of Daemon Tools have yet to donate a single solitary dime for it's use, and judging by the number of comments, it's a fairly large community, with very little return for the time, dedication and raw talent of the Daemon Tools team. Reading the news section on the front page of the this site is degrading and disappointing. Since when do programmers who make very little if any return on their time have to defend themselves against impatient and ungrateful users of whom very little have contributed to the product, if at all? Insulting in the least.

    People must understand that software doesn't just appear overnight, and those pieces of software that do are usually QND code and don't necessarily work right, if at all. It takes a tremendous amount of time to design, write, and debug code, and on a system level utility such as Daemon Tools, this can lead to endless crashing and rebooting and memory dump searching to find a particular bug - a very time consuming process. And to top it off, that particular bug may be something as arcane as a decimal point being off, or a misspelled variable name, or a misplaced object in place of another object by mistake. It happens, and often. I easily spend three to five times as much time debugging and testing the code than I did writing it in the first place.

    I would like to see V4 come out as soon as possible too, but I don't want it to be riddled with bugs just for the sake of pushing the product out the door. The "possible" portion of ASAP means just that, a working, viable product that can be used relatively worry free, until then, a release is just not "possible". The amount and quality of work of the Daemon Tools team rivals that of products that publishing houses charge an arm and a leg for, for little or no money whatsoever. This hails as the Daemon Tools team's dedication to their craft, and looking a gift horse in the mouth doesn't help to alleviate their stress of code that may not be up to release quality yet. The team isn't just protecting themselves here, they are protecting you, the user, from unnecessary reboots and system failures.

    Am I excited about V4? You bet! Am I willing to risk losing one of the greatest utilities to come along without a huge price tag simply because I have little or no patience? No way.

    Non-programmers have lack of vision, and vision is what makes a programmer a programmer. The vision to see a need for a product, the vision to design it and code it and see it through to completion. This reminds me of most of the Microsoft bashers, the ones who complain about the security and the quality of the code, but couldn't tell you difference between Quantas, Semaphores, SHAs, etc. and a hole in the ground. Simply put, unless you can and do prove otherwise with a better product in a shorter time frame (not just think about it, but do it) you probably shouldn't complain about those who are talented enough to do it in the first place. I wouldn't dare critique a brain surgeon's performance if I thought the surgery ran a little long, as I have no basis in that field, and the same applies here. Non-programmers should check their coats at the door.

    That being said, thank you to the Daemon Tools team for creating one of my all time favorite utilities, one that I have suggested to others hundreds, maybe even thousands of times over. Hats off to you guys, you guys are the greatest. I look forward to the launch of V4, but if it's not ready, don't let the narrow mindedness of the complaining users push you to release a product that is not quite ready. Quality over quantity. And for that, I for one can wait.

  2. #2

    Default

    I actually came here and made an account specifically to say thank you to the Daemon Tools team for all their hard work. (For free no less!)

    C'mon people, show 'em some love!

  3. #3

    Default

    This post should be mandatory for everyone who wants to criticize programmers. I'm not talking about the Daemon Tools specific part (which is actually so great that I'm thinking about the permission to quote it whenever somebody asks for the release date) but rather about the part that outlines why software development is such a time consuming process. I loved the Microsoft part actually!

    Everyone rants against Microsoft - I assume everyone does it because everyone else does it -, but they developed the only operating system that was good enough (and I don't mean stability only, but usability and beginner-friendliness as well) to be used by everyone. Ask a computer illiterate to use Linux, or even OpenBSD - they'll look the same as most of us would look if they were confronted with the task to compare DNA samples.

    That's not to say I like Microsoft's way of competing in the market, but they do have made some good software.


    Sorry, that just had to be said. Anyway, reeally great post. Someone who understands...
    "I was inappropriately blunt, wasn't I? Sorry, I do that a lot."

  4. #4

    Default

    I agree with the OP. The DT team and the BETA team work long and hard to fix all the little bugs that can ruin a consumer's day. Some errors could even lead to system damage, although I have my doubts that errors like that are in DT. The comparison with Microsoft is especially appropriate, since everyone who uses Windows has to pay for it (ignoring piracy, of course). By paying $200 for Windows, the consumer purchases the right to complain to Microsoft. The majority of the community is not contributing a cent to the development of DT, or the upkeep of the website, so they do not have the right to complain. I would contribute, but I am a minor without a credit card. Until I have such, I can only sit by and encourage the DT and BETA teams. I request that this thread recieve "Sticky" status, because it is one of the best posts I have seen in this forum!
    -Evan C. Davis-

  5. #5
    New User
    Join Date
    17.06.2005
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    21

    Default I for one, can not.

    I totally agree with what's been said

    But on the other hand I'm the customer (whether i'm paying or not isn't relevant at this stage)

    I'm expecting the software, so I expect a timeframe - and I wasn't provided with one.

    Dont get me wrong, im NOT ranting, angry, upset or anything. Just stating what I feel, as a "customer's point of view"

    I got a bit worried about the lack of news (now corrected). If you're making software, constructing buildings, creating whatever! There -IS- a timeframe involved. I think the problem exists here was that there was no given timeframe, it was a "when its done" case (until recently)

    Lets take the building industry, bad example but you'll see my point.
    If someone started work on a major skyscraper and said "it'll be ready when its done" could you imagine the public outcry?

    That's all that's happening here I feel. People just want to know what's going on! Nothing more, nothing less.

    It's not unreasonable, is it?

    I feel it isn't, but then again, i'm sure everyone has their own point of view.

    I've said it before and i'll -STRESS- it again, the DT tools team (YOU!!!) have done and are still doing, and EXCELLENT job. Keep up the fantastic work.

    All in all, we learn from our mistakes, and we have to accept ^some^ criticism - experience is, what makes us human, after all.....

    Have a good day/night peeps!!
    I'll be back soon to anno... I mean check progress

    Raa.

  6. #6
    New User
    Join Date
    18.10.2005
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    25

    Default well well well

    Just think
    If they refuse to tell all 50 or so threads who ask the same question
    "whats going on"
    then its got to be good
    either that or they have no idea
    which would be very bad....
    and then we dont really want to know

    and another point i feel the need to mention is this

    If they told us everything that was going to be on it, and they couldnt get some to work properly and had to scratch it from the program, we'd get all pissed off cuz we would think they lied to us, even though they did the best job they could

    and besides, if they told us, we'd have nothing to talk about would we, or complain about, or nag about....
    this way is so much more fun isnt it?

  7. #7
    Experienced User Nikos's Avatar
    Join Date
    13.10.2005
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    334

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raa
    But on the other hand I'm the customer (whether i'm paying or not isn't relevant at this stage)

    I'm expecting the software, so I expect a timeframe - and I wasn't provided with one.
    Problem is, how can you give a timeframe* if you don't know when it's gonna be finished?

    * BTW, a timeframe has been given. DTools4 will appear before the end of this month, and "end of this month" is 9 days from now. However, that's just a plan; there's no guarantee that no announcement will be made that goes like "we're sorry, but the release date is now next month" or whatever.
    To contact me privately, pray. I might answer.

  8. #8
    New User
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    17.06.2005
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    21

    Default

    I know that now dude, im talking about before.

    I'm sorry, but the "how can i give a timeframe" excuse doesn't wash with me really.

    If you're going to build a building, then you have estimates for how long that building takes based on (whatever).

    Same for programming - I *know* its not the same, and I *know* that you can't plan for bugs that crop up yadda.

    Anyway.... enough of this. We're almost there, lets stay cool

  9. #9
    Experienced User

    Kitna's Avatar
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    24.02.2003
    Posts
    479

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raa
    I know that now dude, im talking about before.

    I'm sorry, but the "how can i give a timeframe" excuse doesn't wash with me really.

    If you're going to build a building, then you have estimates for how long that building takes based on (whatever).

    Same for programming - I *know* its not the same, and I *know* that you can't plan for bugs that crop up yadda.

    Anyway.... enough of this. We're almost there, lets stay cool
    Maybe we have the timeframe in the customers forum and have been keeping it secret :P
    Goodnight Brave Warrior, Goodnight Monster-land..

  10. #10
    New User
    Join Date
    23.10.2005
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    7

    Default

    Just wanted to chime in. I just registered mostly to say that I think Daemon Tools is fantastic...and the ol' adage always rings true "beggars can't be choosers". It is amazing how people give these guys so much crap, when they don't give 'em any money, support nothin.

    I am not a programmer, but a web developer, and when someone is getting stuff for free...well it gets done when it gets done, nuff said...and I expect a thank you when it is finished!

    Thank you! I love the software and look forward to it whenever it is ready!

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