Daemon Tools and Addware!

[evlncrn8]

if you got brought straight to the download page, thats the search engines fault, not this sites...

and if you were ignorant not to check the site and just downloaded the file and installed it, then thats your problem too...

a developer of 20+ years should have a little bit more common sense..

[Kitna]

A developer of 20+ years who can't see the difference between adware and malware should be embarrassed and ashamed.

[Jito463]

I'll lay it out for everyone, plain and simple.
Daemon Tools download page, clearly showing the adware inclusion.



The Daemon Tools installer, with the option to disable the adware/search bar (the fact that it doesn't show the text until you mouse over is a limitation of the installer).



And should you forget to uncheck the box, or make the mistake of overlooking it, here's what happens when you first run Daemon Tools.



Which - as you can see - clearly allows you to cancel the install of the search bar.

And my only specific point aimed at mtb (since you appear to potentially be just a troll looking for attention) is that any judge overseeing a lawsuit against DTools for this would laugh in the plaintiffs face, and maybe charge them for wasting the courts time, before throwing it out the door. "Oh, my. I installed a free program that came with adware, I'm suing!" Riiiiight.

[mtb]

Ah yes, the download text, I forgot to mention that.
"...install client-side software applications (DAEMON Tools Searchbar and Save Now)...".
Applications - plural, not singular, indicating more than one application - the lower case "and" implying that there would probably be two, one called DAEMON Tools Searchbar and one called Save Now. So when I saw the DAEMON Tools Search Bar option but no Save Now option in the installer I presumed (oh, how foolish of me!) that you had removed the Save Now component (accidentally or on purpose). Had the option been named "DAEMON Tools Searchbar and Save Now" it would have been more accurate, more visible and been supportive of your total disclosure argument but it wasn't and it isn't.
Regarding the screen that appears when you run Daemon Tools for the first time, I never saw it (thanks to SpyBot) but it would be of little comfort to me after the software has already been installed and the computer already, in effect, compromised.
That 'warning' screen would be far better placed within the installer. It would be a simple enough task to provide two screens based on the component selection, one asking the user to reconsider if they choose not to install the Toolbar and one showing the 'warning' screen if they choose to install. This way there could be no possibility of uninformed choice (and please don't insult me by trying to say it can't be done).
What I really cannot fathom is that you continue using this approach despite the obvious negative reaction of users. A significant proportion of your threads, and therefore time, is being committed to (and therefore wasted on) justifying something which could continue with far less aggravation if you simply changed the installer to be more upfront. The product is excellent from what I've seen in my evaluations, why taint it by associating it with a dubious support method (whether perceived or not)?
I am not saying you should not use the adware method, I am suggesting that you ensure 100% that the user has to have seen clearly, and without option for confusion, precisely what they are installing and made an informed choice - what I see in these forums suggests the opposite.
Troll? It's sad to see you having to resort to name calling, I thought I was talking as one I.T. professional to another, presenting you with constructive criticism so as to help you improve what I (and others) perceive as a flawed approach to raising revenue. Clearly I was not talking to who I expected.
Kitna
You may wish have a look round the web at definitions of malware and adware, the two are generally perceived to be synonymous. Just to help you, here are a couple of excerpts from Wikipedia with some particularly pertinent parts highlighted in red...
"Malware is software designed to infiltrate or damage a computer system without the owner's informed consent. It is a portmanteau of the words "malicious" and "software". The expression is a general term used by computer professionals to mean a variety of forms of hostile, intrusive, or annoying software or program code."
"Adware or advertising-supported software is any software package which automatically plays, displays, or downloads advertising material to a computer after the software is installed on it or while the application is being used.
...
It is not uncommon for people to confuse "adware" with "spyware" and "malware", especially since these concepts overlap. For example, if one user installs "adware" on a computer, and consents to a tracking feature, the "adware" becomes "spyware" when another user visits that computer, and interacts with and is tracked by the "adware" without their consent."
That we are even having this discussion is clearly evidence that, what you consider to be informed consent and what the users perceive it to be are two very different things.
evlncrn8
How wonderful to see someone with such an open mind(!)... everyone's fault but your own... how refreshing. Having seen sufficient information elsewhere in Google, I felt the download screen provided me with adequate information about the product I was about to assess - I also use a DMZ approach to new software, installing in a controlled environment. This approach works fine for all other products I have evaluated, why (without hindsight) should I consider yours to be any different? Common sense, since you mention it, should be sufficient enough to suggest the adware approach is being handled incorrectly, but clearly common sense is lacking hereabouts.
Consider also the fact that the Save Now component is considered an undesirable product by so many of the anti-spyware/anti-malware/etc. products - if that doesn't set the alarm bells ringing, nothing will; clearly a lack of hearing is also common.
So name call and throw insults all you like, it is no loss to me - I shall not be continuing using, nor recommending, the product and therefore won't be in need of support. The four device limit is a little inconvenient but could be worked with but the rest of the product was very good and did precisely what I wanted. However, it is the narrow-minded and stubborn attitude of the "experienced users" in these support forums which makes me feel that the support I will receive for my money will be better elsewhere. A shame really, since I prefer to support 'the little guy' and I'm sure that 59 Euros i have now paid (for Alcohol 120%) would have been of greater benefit to you than to them.
Good luck with your endevours and may your eyes and minds open a little.

[Copytrooper]

Thanks for supporting us by buying Alcohol 120% - as they use our driver.

[Jito463]

First, I know what malware is. Second, I never said you WERE a troll, I said you POTENTIALLY were one. Wouldn't be the first time. By the way, I'm not a member of the DTools staff, but I am a member of the Alcohol Soft Support Team. So welcome aboard. Make sure you e-mail support@alcohol-soft.com for access to the Customer forums. Put "Purchased User" in the subject line, and your desired username plus registered e-mail in the body. You will be e-mailed back when your access is setup.

And just to clarify, when that message box pops up to ask you if you want to continue with the search bar/adware install, at that point it is not installed. The only part of it on your HDD is the installer. No other part of it is running. If you cancel at that point, you will not have any adware on your computer.

[evlncrn8]

as a developer of 20+ years as you state, i find it somewhat strange that you didn't actually research the software, or even look around the site.. so yes it IS your fault for not properly researching.. 'sufficient information elsewhere in google'....
blaming google now?.. common sense implies that being a software professional that you should at least have enough sense to..

1. research the software (google? ;p)
2. dmz install sure.. gr8.. install in vmware too
3. go to the main page of the site and actually look around
4. monitor your spybot / ad-ware programs?

but you just blindly downloaded, blindly clicked buttons...
also please dont try 'educating' people here about malware, and so on or trying to do any sniping, it makes you look childish.. other peopler here are engineers too..

oh and DMZ is networking term, not exactly relative to what you're discussing.. and heh alcohol and daemon are practically the same core.. you really did your homework / research didnt you...

[Kitna]

Thankyou for quoting directly from wikipedia. It does help to clear things up for me. It is now evident that english is likely not your first language due to your inability to see that adware and malware are clearly different (as enforced by your own quotes). So as I was unaware of this I apologise.

[Sabrehawk]

Yadda Yadda let that dumbass troll on elsewhere (incapable of reading,but
claiming to be a coder with 20+ years exp? ROFL, probably
been coding for teller machines?

[elkangorito]

I actually agree with a lot of what "mtb" had to say.
Here was my experience with Daemon Tools 4.09 X86, recently downloaded from the "Daemon Tools" site (http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/down...gory&catid=5);
I did read the ".....This version has an option to install client-side software applications (DAEMON Tools Searchbar and Save Now) that deliver a limited number of behaviorally targeted and contextually relevant coupons, ads and comparative shopping results directly to consumers desktops - without compromising the privacy, security or smooth functioning of peoples computers! No URL hijacking or redirects! In order to support FREE distribution of DAEMON Tools we highly encourage you at least to try out this optional software! (you can remove it anytime later when you wish: via Control Panel-> Add/Remove Programs)" information & decided that the product was safe to download, which I did. I then installed the software onto my computer (I forgot to untick the searchbar install) afterwhich, I restarted my computer. Immediately the computer booted into windows, I was alerted by both Windows Defender (which I will soon replace with Spybot) & Avast (home version). Windows defender was not specific about the problem but Avast informed me that a 'threat' had been found & this threat was listed as the Win32-Agent-AWB trojan.
Because I was not expecting a trojan to be installed onto my computer (I was expecting a harmless 'searchbar' though), I immediately placed the file(s) into quarantine.
I then tried to open Daemon Tools, which failed to respond. I then uninstalled the program by using its uninstaller, afterwhich I restarted the computer.
Upon the OS booting, I was confronted with "New hardware was found on your computer & Windows will need to be re-activated" or words to this affect. Also, MS gave me 3 days in which to re-activate my computer.
I see no mention of "Some anti-virus software may call part of our software a trojan" or "Our software may cause activation problems with Windows". BTW, my computer was 'bug free' prior to this. Now, I will reload windows because I don't want to send MS any info by re-activating my computer.
As to this date & time, I have not tried Daemon Tools (DT), which I am determined to try IF somebody (preferably an expert on DT, an administrator or a Mod) can definitively tell me that the 'Win32-Agent-AWB' trojan is not as Avast sees it (ie it's safe). Also & if possible, could somebody please offer an explanation about why my Win XP now needs re-validating?
Thanks in advance.

[Jito463]

Regarding the trojan, I can only assume it's one of two problems. Either Avast is falsely reading the DTools searchbar as a trojan, or you downloaded an infected copy (which, if you downloaded from the official mirrors, is highly unlikely). The official release from DTools does not contain any malicious software. I'll see if I can't setup a testbed to try an install of DTools with Avast installed.

As to your second problem with Windows needing reactivated, I can safely say that Windows would see the virtual drive as a new device. And if you had made any other modifications within the past 3-6 months, then Windows probably decided it was just time for your to reactivate. If you have not made any hardware changes, then I honestly don't know what would have caused that.

[obi1kenobi]

Perhaps your copy of Windows is an OEM version? The OEM version needs to be reactivated upon installation of new hardware (that's why it's called an OEM). As for the trojan, I always scan files I download, and my F-Secure Anti-virus didn't find any threats, and as F-Secure is shown to detect 99.69% of the known malware by some studies, it is highly unlikely that the trojan came with DT.

[Kinlaadare]

by the way, installing DT and having avast shouldn't pose any problem (tested on XP pro, XP pro x64 and vista 32bit edittion)

[Jito463]

Perhaps your copy of Windows is an OEM version? The OEM version needs to be reactivated upon installation of new hardware (that's why it's called an OEM).

Actually, OEM versions are identical to retail versions in regards to activation. The difference between the two is that OEM versions do not include any technical support from MS, and they are licensed to ONE PC only. As far as MS is concerned, that means if you even swap the mobo, it's a new computer and technically you must buy a new copy (though that's not often enforced).

Other than that, OEM versions are identical to retail versions. Trust me, I work with OEM versions of Windows all day at work. If you swap enough hardware around (adding RAM, upgrading video card, adding HDD, etc.) on a retail copy, it will require re-activation as well. They are identical in that respect.

[obi1kenobi]

If you swap enough hardware around (adding RAM, upgrading video card, adding HDD, etc.) on a retail copy, it will require re-activation as well. They are identical in that respect.

How come I have added 2GB of RAM, upgraded my video card to nVidia 7300, added a brand new 320GB HDD, added a new DVD-RW, installed Daemon Tools (adding a new Virtual Drive), changed my motherboard... and my retail Win XP x86 didn't require activation.