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foxythefox
23.11.2005, 07:47
And, frankly, Daemon Tools is not free.

There is nothing wrong with not being free, but it should not be presented as free - especially not when it was free of charge at one time. This service is not continuing.

Adware does not make a product free of charge; it comes with a price. There are enough messages on here to show that customers have had problems with their installation, difficulties with the adware etc. to show that the price is being paid. Incorporating adware is considered by many to be a sell-out, and any attempt to explain why it was necessary will fall on deaf ears. People are scared of adware, they are wary of it, they simply don't like it; they don't know much about the workings of their computer, but their computer is very precious to them, and the thought of third-party software is frightening. There is software produced - Adsense, Spybot - created to rid them of these irritations, so it is understood to be an univited guest. And it is not like having a coupon put in your hand - people feel like it takes over the computer and appears at every opportunity. It is not appreciated.

But it looks like Daemon is screwed because they are locked into a contract where the money-providers are calling the shots. That's tough.

This is purported to be the free version of a payed-for product. So, keep it that way. It is best for people's loyalty to a product not to be questioned; and threatening language is best avoided, too: "In order to support FREE distribution of DAEMON Tools we highly encourage you at least to try out this optional software!" This kind of statement says, "It'll be your fault if we have to start charging." And that cannot help.

There have been various suggestions to keep a free version active, eg. set up a PayPal method so that contributions can be made easily. Whatever the case, stop claiming the software is at no charge, or ditch the adware if you can.

Maybe Daemon could offer a version where only one virtual drive can be mounted and registration unlocks another three. It could be called Daemon Tools (Angel of) Lite.

Kitna
23.11.2005, 13:38
And, frankly, Daemon Tools is not free.

There is nothing wrong with not being free, but it should not be presented as free - especially not when it was free of charge at one time. This service is not continuing.

Adware does not make a product free of charge; it comes with a price. There are enough messages on here to show that customers have had problems with their installation, difficulties with the adware etc. to show that the price is being paid. Incorporating adware is considered by many to be a sell-out, and any attempt to explain why it was necessary will fall on deaf ears. People are scared of adware, they are wary of it, they simply don't like it; they don't know much about the workings of their computer, but their computer is very precious to them, and the thought of third-party software is frightening. There is software produced - Adsense, Spybot - created to rid them of these irritations, so it is understood to be an univited guest. And it is not like having a coupon put in your hand - people feel like it takes over the computer and appears at every opportunity. It is not appreciated.

But it looks like Daemon is screwed because they are locked into a contract where the money-providers are calling the shots. That's tough.

This is purported to be the free version of a payed-for product. So, keep it that way. It is best for people's loyalty to a product not to be questioned; and threatening language is best avoided, too: "In order to support FREE distribution of DAEMON Tools we highly encourage you at least to try out this optional software!" This kind of statement says, "It'll be your fault if we have to start charging." And that cannot help.

There have been various suggestions to keep a free version active, eg. set up a PayPal method so that contributions can be made easily. Whatever the case, stop claiming the software is at no charge, or ditch the adware if you can.

Maybe Daemon could offer a version where only one virtual drive can be mounted and registration unlocks another three. It could be called Daemon Tools (Angel of) Lite.
I would agree with you except for one small thing.
THE ADWARE IS OPTIONAL!
If it was compulsary you would have a point, but as it stands your long post was completely pointless.

foxythefox
23.11.2005, 15:04
It doesn't really matter if the adware is optional - the spirit of it has been compromised. This is the whole point and the reason why it has been grudgingly received. Even the programmers themselves feel uncomfortable with it. They are building a great little program, and they went with adware. That hurts.

If you are irritated with the long post, fair enough. There is no need to make it twice as long by repeating it, and then writing an obvious answer in big red font. You and everybody else knows adware sucks. It casts a shadow over the whole thing. Why'd you think the crowd went wild when Opera ditched theirs?

LocutusofBorg
23.11.2005, 18:43
customers are for sure not having probs with adware - it
is not in their installation included.

Your "this kind of statement says "It'll be be your fault if we
have to start charging" is true. Exactly because of that we
made it this way. Exactly that is what we wanted to say.
You got us totally right! Except the term "your fault". See
it as fact, not as "fault". We don't blame anyone if we must
stop public support. Why should we? We just stop then.
Thats all. Point. No further discussion needed then.

Noone is forced to use DT, not you or anyone else.
Personally, if I have a problem with some kind of software
I simple don't use it, whether it's freeware or not. If we stop public support,
we will for sure tell anyone that DT is no longer freeware. Until then, call it
"Freeware with optional adware" or "adware with option to install it as freeware" or
whatever you prefer. Given the fact that millions visit our
website and use DT, the amount of people who rant here
against adware is - seriously - very small. I think you just
overestimate how many people rant against optional(!) adware.

The whole discussion is esotherical. As long as we not force
our users to install adware, there's nothing wrong with it.
It is only wrong for those, who are not able to just uncheck
it - and then complain about it.

Then - and it seems to me that is the only option for those -
deinstall Daemon Tools and don't support us any longer.
I feel sad about that we lose users, however, there's
nothing we can do to convince them it seems to me.

In general some people tend to think we are their employees.
No. We are not. And if you want adfree-version, no need to
"donate" - just purchase license and that's it.

Kitna
24.11.2005, 06:29
I agree completely Locutus, I am not having any issues with the adware ;)

AmphetaMarinE
24.11.2005, 11:08
I agree completely Locutus, I am not having any issues with the adware ;)
+1

I also have no problem whatsoever with the adware...



P.S. Remember folks... buying this software cost me less than having a frigging pizza delivered....

It is so low cost, and so highly effective, that the meagre amount for a license is pretty much a non-issue....

TRM
24.11.2005, 22:20
I'm agree too to you, all 3 last PRE-posters ;-)

And Kita.. your Answer was very, very great (i wont say LOOOOL) ;-)

But all you forgot to say, there will be extra function available, if the DT-Team is donated by users, for these users :-)
.. anytime, DT Pro with such power will come. So i hope for all users, they have a great time and think the right.

samii
24.11.2005, 22:37
...
Adware does not make a product free of charge; it comes with a price. There are enough messages on here to show that customers have had problems with their installation, difficulties with the adware etc. to show that the price is being paid. Incorporating adware is considered by many to be a sell-out, and any attempt to explain why it was necessary will fall on deaf ears. People are scared of adware, they are wary of it, they simply don't like it; they don't know much about the workings of their computer, but their computer is very precious to them, and the thought of third-party software is frightening...

I have to agree with foxythefox. How can you really trust ANY adware? Do you, the DT developers like WHENU so much that you use it yourself? IMHO, WHENU is just another "service" that I don't need and never needed in the first place.

There is a previous post about WHENU cleaning up their act after complaints. From this info, you could easily draw the conclusion that in the recent past, WHENU was NOT clean, and the only reason that said "cleaning" was done, was after the complaints. So, you have an adware company with a history of less than acceptable practices.

DT, why not try advertisement space on your site? As one of you mentioned, you receive lots of web page hits. You would seem to have a source of revenue right there.
Adware should be a last resort, and really when you're ready to completely sell-out, and sell your software to someone else who will then take the software to the next step of complete abtrusive and probably hidden-adware components.

I am actually trying to help and suggest, as a lot of other posters seem to be too. So you should not get mad at them for voicing their opinion, especially when it's about ADWARE, which is argueably one of the most dispised things in software today. No matter how much you play up, describe, post info, bless, or whatever, you had to know that adding ADWARE to your product was bound cause some ill will.

LocutusofBorg
24.11.2005, 23:33
I have to agree with foxythefox. How can you really trust ANY adware? Do you, the DT developers like WHENU so much that you use it yourself? IMHO, WHENU is just another "service" that I don't need and never needed in the first place.

There is a previous post about WHENU cleaning up their act after complaints. From this info, you could easily draw the conclusion that in the recent past, WHENU was NOT clean, and the only reason that said "cleaning" was done, was after the complaints. So, you have an adware company with a history of less than acceptable practices.

DT, why not try advertisement space on your site? As one of you mentioned, you receive lots of web page hits. You would seem to have a source of revenue right there.
Adware should be a last resort, and really when you're ready to completely sell-out, and sell your software to someone else who will then take the software to the next step of complete abtrusive and probably hidden-adware components.

I am actually trying to help and suggest, as a lot of other posters seem to be too. So you should not get mad at them for voicing their opinion, especially when it's about ADWARE, which is argueably one of the most dispised things in software today. No matter how much you play up, describe, post info, bless, or whatever, you had to know that adding ADWARE to your product was bound cause some ill will.
Then do not use the adware. That's why we included the
option to not install it. We btw don't get mad about your opinions,
why do you think we approve your posts? Especially as we can
simple censor everything? Because we want to hear your
opinion. It is only that we don't share your opinion, that's
all, as long as noone is forced to use it: don't install it.

What the future brings? Who knows... we respect your opinion.

To make myself clear once again:
you have THREE options:

1) install it with adware
2) install it without adware
3) purchase license - and get adware-free version

Again: we receive VERY VERY low complains about it, as 99,9%
of our users don't complain about it because IF they chose to
not install it - they are just thankfull that we leaved this decision to them! In numbers: I received 7 emails about it. seven!

Frankly spoken, our users are much smarter as you guessed.
They don't need our "protection" from the "bad" adware. They
are imho in full control of their systems and apart from that
know what they're doing (what is imho needed anyway as
DaemonTools is nothing you should install without at least
a little bit of knowledge! Therefore that users should also know
whether they want to install it or not for themselves)

And if you think you pay a too high price by supporting us -
no problem, then deinstall adware or not install it at all. Or,
if you as principle don't want to support us: don't install our
application at all. It is easy as that. Sad, but true: What do
you think all this development, webservice and so on costs?
Do you think we talk about some thousand dollars/month?
So purchase DT or install Adware. Or nothing of the both
suggestions. Just install it as standalone. Then it is complete
adfree, cost-free and therefore I would call it freeware. So
IMHO(!) you get what you expect. But of course you are entitled to
call it whatever you want.

You can be assured: We monitor our partners VERY well. What
they did in the past is not relevant now. Otherwise we would
behave like neanderthal man. They had good reason to stop
their practices and if we ever see such practices HERE we will
asap remove the ad-project.

Thank you for your suggestions anyway. If you're not logged
in, you will already see advertisement (google adsense). This
revenues will not even pay our loadbalancer ;)

Yoshio
25.11.2005, 02:02
i always wondered about the advertisement idea.. i mean with so many people coming to the site to see if the new version was out or not.. why not get some advertisement revenue? even if they do that in addition to the 'adaware' you would think that would cut down on the devs/admins bashing users cos they arent paying for it.. if your that hard up for revenue.....

a203xi
25.11.2005, 22:50
"Oh, you don't have to install it, so that automatically makes it ok"

I can understand wanting money and all, but if you want it, theres other ways to do it. Ads on a website, or a forum are ok, having a 'Please donate if you like our software' message box once you install is fine, but to actually take the nerve of installing actual ads onto someone's computer is not just invasive, it's wrong. You can come up with whatever excuse as to how this is justified (Oh not that many people have complained, you can not install it, etc, etc) but it's still unjust, if you don't want to listen to us that's fine but there's other ways to make revenue, and it doesn't look like you've even considered any of them. Oh and the description about the ad-ware on the DL page makes it seem like a fucking info-mercial.

TRM
26.11.2005, 11:41
I can understand wanting money and all, but if you want it, theres other ways to do it. Ads on a website, or a forum are
[..]
Oh and the description about the ad-ware on the DL page makes it seem like a fucking info-mercial.

Hello, some peoble, like you, dont UNDERSTAND the installation-process or cant/wont read (the simpliest way is just klick on OK, SURE..) but the fact is:

IT IS ALWAYS YOUR CHOICE TO USE AND TO INSTALL DAEMON-TOOLS. IN FACT OF YOUR CHOICE FOR DAEMON-TOOLS YOU HAVE SOME OPTIONS

There are like:
Install it READ AND Understand what you are trying to install, there is an option to UNCHECK the Adwarecomponent. BUT it's necessary to UNDERSTAND the words, even like the simple word OK.
And the other side is to buy the software. So you never gets Adware by Daemon-Tools from the original Website..

And the 3th way is to uninstall the Searchbar after install Daemon-Tools.

So why you want to piss on the DT-Team, especially Locutus?

LocutusofBorg
26.11.2005, 20:28
why? Because most of the people can't imagine what it costs
to run such a project - they just don't even think we work
hard. I learned all this the hard way. Although 99% of our
users are really nice persons and in general not so easy get
in rage, there are always persons who freak out, regardless
what you do. This is the price for being "popular".

Some guys even know better how to make this and that, they
send us their suggestions or post here and have absolutley no
idea what happened behind the scenery. The last poster above
you, a203xi, don't even read my last post carefully. With
popularity, there comes always this problems, I guess it can't
be avoided. People complain here although they don't have to
pay a single cent for it. For what we post. For HOW we post.
For not deliver it asap. For slow website. For new design. For
the hunger in the world and their personal problems (yes, I
know this is a fact, I already discussed with such people)

They told us we are idiots, greedy and
we are the slowest developers they ever see. The list is end-
less. I think the honor people now understand why we need
from time to time some nice words. If you are not able to
chose "not install DaemonTools Searchbar" - then better don't
install DaemonTools at all. It might be a too complex application for you

bernaar
26.11.2005, 22:31
and it doesn't look like you've even considered any of them..


Seems like it doesn't look that you even considered reading the info.
You have the ability to UNCHECK the adware install!:D

TRM
26.11.2005, 22:37
I think the honor people now understand why we need
from time to time some nice words. If you are not able to
chose "not install DaemonTools Searchbar" - then better don't
install DaemonTools at all. It might be a too complex application for you

Hi Locutus, the first part is very good. I hope a little 'Welcome on our hard, cold world, you little DTx64' is enough ;-)
Hey, it's a joke but next week i will hopefully can run a x64 OS, only the Hardware is on the postway now :-/
So then i can post my expierience to the new kind of your team :-)

The 2nd part - i hope it's not for me ;-)

Have a nice weekend, try to sleep :-)

~M.

chris622000
29.11.2005, 16:27
why? Because most of the people can't imagine what it costs
to run such a project - they just don't even think we work
hard. I learned all this the hard way. Although 99% of our
users are really nice persons and in general not so easy get
in rage, there are always persons who freak out, regardless
what you do. This is the price for being "popular".

Some guys even know better how to make this and that, they
send us their suggestions or post here and have absolutley no
idea what happened behind the scenery. The last poster above
you, a203xi, don't even read my last post carefully. With
popularity, there comes always this problems, I guess it can't
be avoided. People complain here although they don't have to
pay a single cent for it. For what we post. For HOW we post.
For not deliver it asap. For slow website. For new design. For
the hunger in the world and their personal problems (yes, I
know this is a fact, I already discussed with such people)

They told us we are idiots, greedy and
we are the slowest developers they ever see. The list is end-
less. I think the honor people now understand why we need
from time to time some nice words. If you are not able to
chose "not install DaemonTools Searchbar" - then better don't
install DaemonTools at all. It might be a too complex application for you
Call this what it is. People have no loyalty to daemon tools anymore then people had any loyalty to the the first wordperfect versions or Lotus 1-2-3. The main problem I have with your program is you say the spyware is optional just a question for you lotus borg how many program developers have optional components preselected it is in fact part of you main program. Hiding behind the End User License Agreement for deceptive installation techniques should be above the OS community and it is you have sold out. The fact you have put your name in the front of the junkware instead of the real SaveNow/Search or When U search is further evidence of deceptive installation techniques intended to dupe the user into thinking it is part of the daemon tools program.

LocutusofBorg
29.11.2005, 18:43
I guess I can save my time to answer that, all that I can say
was already said. If you can't read our releasenotes before
you install, you are not in the condition to come here and
complain. Apart from that: Yes, of course we want that many
people install it. The whole discussion here is pointless.
I say: take a look to this forum - do you have the feeling that
we have a "loyalty problem"? Not from my statistics here. But
loyalty is nothing you can eat, think about it. You have always
the option to not install DaemonTools in general - deinstall it
and you have 100% no problem, at least not with us. One
comment: If you think we are that "hiders" and try to fool you:
why is that thread here? Why is your post here? Remember
that several links are from mainpage to this forum! We have
nothing to hide. The Searchbar from us is indeed not same as
usual standard-bar and we add even new functional benefit
to it in the next versions. Apart from that: yes, by default it
is opt-in. But we tell you about BEFORE. We also thought
about the other way around, but in that case people come
here and complain: Why should I activate it if even you set
it by default to off.
BTW: My name is Locutus, not Lotus ;)

TRM
29.11.2005, 20:06
We also thought
about the other way around, but in that case people come
here and complain: Why should I activate it if even you set
it by default to off.
BTW: My name is Locutus, not Lotus ;)

Hey, Lotus-flower ;-)

Thats the idea.. Lets ALL options unchecked. So the users have to check itselfs.. then if some people comes to complain - there is one more definitily clear, they cant read, they cant understand.
And then it's not your problem again. Try it out, i will see, what happen.
Or it's not a good idea?

kukubau
29.11.2005, 21:51
I think some Google Ads would make a nice additon to the site. Some cents here and there wouldn't hurt, would it? :)

TRM
29.11.2005, 23:08
I think some Google Ads would make a nice additon to the site.

Still here. Try to logout, then look into some Threads. You will find Ads. So only for NON-Users or Users who are'nt logged in..

Sabrehawk
30.11.2005, 13:13
I can understand the needs for revenues and the
need to get some cash out of hard labor is undisputable.

DT Team has tried to walk the way of light with their
product thats for sure. But one point is really a point...

The installer should be redesigned what my preposter
has said. Actual user consent needed to install additional
adware portion of the software and not vice versa like
it is right now (having to uncheck a checkbox which can
easily be overlooked or does not appear at all due to
a weird bug). No problem for me if the installer has a
big pledge of the maker in it that explains that they
really are grateful if you activate it and that you will
support their work by doing it etc etc. That would be
the path of light and the absolutely correct way of
handling things. And then u will really get a actual
feedback about how many people really dont care or
at least oblige to have any sort of third party software
on their computer and it wont be up to guessing and
stating opinions about how many percent of your users
dont have a problem (how many percent of the users
even know this website btw, theres a load of people
that never bothers to visit a forum, they will simply run
adaware and remove that crap if they missed the option
to not install it). And maybe they will have a bad feeling
left over after it comes to their mind that their beloved
DT has installed that (even if they were to hasty to
read the installer infos and yes its their own "fault" it
will not give good feelings afterwards and they most
certainly will never ever register the software).

Conclusion. You are deserving benefits but also you
are to think about the path of light :D Mr. Lotus-Blüte :D
and that means uncheck the box per default and make
a HUGE prominent installer notice about your financial
needs and we will see how many people are willing to
sacrifice minimal cpu cycles and bandwith and other
potential things to support your efforts and will check
the box then. Also add a timer to the installer notice
window so people cant just powerclick thru all of it.
:D

This will hugely improve your reputation amongst those
who dont like the whole adware story optional or not
optional is most secondary in this issue. Its about the
old-skool code of conduct in the scene where a lot
of people including you guys emerged from :D

TRM
30.11.2005, 13:26
Hi, on the site, where any user can download the FREE version of DT4 is a BIG announced text and this is free for ANYBODY to read ;-)

i dont miss a big Textfield or somrthing like this, where the adware is explained. Because i can read, understand and last,but not least - i'm a customer even like you ;-)

So i don't care a pap for it, if the checkboxes are filled or not.
Point, thats my last post in this Threat :-)

Copytrooper
30.11.2005, 14:50
I don't see why the installer should be "redesigned". Even if you "forgot" to disable the installation, it is still possible to cancel the WhenU EULA to prevent installation. And even if you "accidentally" accepted the WhenU EULA you can remove WhenU stuff quite easily via control panel -> software. And even if this fails due to whatever reason there are enough programs available to get rid of it.
And btw it is always a good idea to read what you're about to install before clicking "ok".
Moreover there is another quite easy option to avoid adware: Register Daemon Tools ;) some advantages:
- No adware,
- Pro version available for free when released,
- priority support
Ain't it cool? ;)

Jito463
30.11.2005, 20:15
I was just about to post what Copytrooper posted, but he said almost everything I was going to.

@Sabrehawk
The reason your installer doesn't have a checkbox for the adware is because you are a customer. The customer version (well, x86 version anyway) did not contain the search bar.

ranbato
30.11.2005, 20:19
'nuff said.

For just a few $$ you too support DT and can be surprised to find that there are ads anywhere. Heck, I have 10(14? I forget) licenses!

If you guys would quit whining and get a job at McDonalds you would have already have made enough money to pay for a copy. ;)

Nikos
01.12.2005, 14:35
Let's not forget that DTools 3 wasn't freeware either. I always read the licenses/agreements/whatever texts of the tools I install. It was explicitly stated that DTools 3 is not freeware. The developers merely granted permission to individuals to use it for free, that's all.

Everyone complaining about how "DTools sold out" is just brain damaged, IMNSHO.

bras0782
01.12.2005, 22:39
I've just read through these posts and noticed that most people who complain about the adware have just registered their account to moan. The defenders on the other hand all have many posts. So I decided to make a change by NOT moaning on my first post.

Instead I'd like to thank everyone involved in DT - thanks for all your hard work and effort. Also, thanks for still keeping the software free and giving users the option to support you two ways (licence or whenu) IF THEY CHOOSE TO SUPPORT.

To all you guys complaining, just take a moment and think about what you have ever contributed. I may be wrong, but all I can see is a load of good-for-nothings who want something for free. They want to download DT and use it to their hearts contents without ever giving a thought to the effort involved.

WHY DO YOU GUYS COMPLAIN ABOUT SOFTWARE WHICH YOU ARE PAYING NOTHING FOR????

So stop whining and moaning and do something useful with your time. Appreciate what you have available, appreciate the effort that goes into what you take for granted and for crying out loud STOP SAYING DT SOLD OUT!!!

Finally, I'd like to add that I am not a regular on this website. I have never been to the DT forums before today and have rarely ever visited the site before. I still managed to read all the info about the WhenU software and credit to the DT guys for making things clear. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realise you are given a choice about WhenU - so appreciate this...if you can't then just don't use DT at all. I'm sure there are more than enough genuine and thankful users of the software already.

THANKS AGAIN TO THE DT TEAM :)

vik
02.12.2005, 23:21
@ bras0782


Thanks a lot! Our team appreciates such kind of support and warm words!

We will continue our efforts in order to make DT software better.

Sabrehawk
04.12.2005, 08:48
about post regarding my ideas and their incorrect assumptions

I have installed various times the NON Customer build of
DT4.0 and i have posted numerous times with screenshot
too that i didnt have a searchbar uninstaller in my control
panel, but idid have WHEN-U in my system after the install.
I also didnt get a extra EULA When-U acceptance window
for the NON customer installer. Weird huh ? I have repeated
this steps various times on old and new Windows
installations. I still think that this is surely not the way it
was designed to be and must be some sort of bug. Dont ask
me why it happened repeatedly on my rig.

And since people often seem to be too stressed to read thru
more than 10 lines of text and processs information i again
repeat.

I think it would be better and moraly more integer to make
the installer OPT IN instead of OPT OUT for the When-U
part. Lots o people power click thru installers and lots of
people get their DT from the site without reading stuff
or they get their DT from other download areas. And since
never before DT has incorpated such things as adware
(optionally or not doesnt matter) noone exspects it to
have it now and jolly roger click away at installation.

The more i read here the more i get the impressions that
some people here put a wager on this facts and do approve
that people install 3rd party Software by accident and
gladly welcome those revenues.

Btw i have read thru the EULA on a other post and the
EULA is horrible it has paradox statements.

I dont trust When-U as far as i could piss across a park.

The things they state about privacy are just about the
same as any spammer or other adware maker does.
After all its what THEY say and heck what u exspect them
to say. Anti-Adware Tool makers seem to have a different
opinion and have not changed it even though When-U
i quote "Is aggressevly reaching out to Anti Adware makers..."


My 2cents. nuff said, do as you please since the whole
thing is just a tiny nuisance and no biggy i will stop
preaching the truth for those who dont want to hear it.

Jito463
05.12.2005, 00:07
You do have a point, many people do just click away through installers without reading. But maybe this should be a lesson to them to stop and read what they are installing...

Kitna
05.12.2005, 23:03
You do have a point, many people do just click away through installers without reading. But maybe this should be a lesson to them to stop and read what they are installing...
Chances are that if they didn't read the D-Tools installer then they are infected by a whole lot of spy/malware anyway.
Most likely they won't even notice additional ads.

brad3485
10.12.2005, 05:18
Can anyone please explain why save.exe locked my cpu on 100% usage as explained in my thread entitled "100% cpu usage" for minutes at a time?

TRM
10.12.2005, 13:06
Can anyone please explain why save.exe locked my cpu on 100% usage as explained in my thread entitled "100% cpu usage" for minutes at a time?

Can anyone please explain what save.exe is ?

Man (or woman) try to think. How ever here can know, what you are doing with you computer. Try to determinate, who's save.exe stored, then try a google-search and then if you have additional facts, you can ask again.

DrTalon
10.12.2005, 22:34
Looks like the WhenU thing. According to http://www.liutilities.com/products/wintaskspro/processlibrary/save/ it's a registered security risk because it's spyware.

Back on topic, I don't complain about dtv4 having adware for 2 reasons: 1, i haven't installed it because I don't have any games that dtv347 can't handle, and 2, because I didn't pay for it.

If you want to whine about something, go whine about Sony's MediaMax or XCP software - Free windows exploits and security holes bundled with a $20 cd! At least this a) clearly states theres adware, and b) doesn't cost anything to obtain.

As for clicking through installers, thats me. Then again I tend to run virus scanners and other scanners on a daily basis, so stuff tends to show up if it shouldn't be there (cept the sims 2, aparently thats not a virus, adware, spyware, or malware, but it shouldn'tve been on this pc anyways).

Oh, and the topic title is misleading in my opinion. Dtools is free, and so is the spyware you can install (or not, if you choose to not install it). Worst case scenario is the dtool developers get annoyed with topics like this one and make dtools shareware. Granted it'd be without ad/spy/malware, but then us non-contributers would be forced to use old versions that don't work with new games. Is that what you want? Is it?

BTW, thanks to the developers for making a kickass program, and a big THUMBS DOWN to the people who think less of the dev's for putting in adware. It's their software - you just use it.

TRM
11.12.2005, 21:33
I guess you, DrTalon :-)

But if you want to use DT4 you dont need to install the adware too. It's a singleclick to make it adfree.

Have a nice day, with best regards
~M.

DrTalon
12.12.2005, 01:08
I know i can turn it off, just never needed to upgrade. After all, why fix it if it aint broke ;)

veekay
21.02.2006, 02:14
I guess I can save my time to answer that, all that I can say
was already said. If you can't read our releasenotes before
you install, you are not in the condition to come here and
complain. Apart from that: Yes, of course we want that many
people install it. The whole discussion here is pointless.
I say: take a look to this forum - do you have the feeling that
we have a "loyalty problem"? Not from my statistics here. But
loyalty is nothing you can eat, think about it. You have always
the option to not install DaemonTools in general - deinstall it
and you have 100% no problem, at least not with us. One
comment: If you think we are that "hiders" and try to fool you:
why is that thread here? Why is your post here? Remember
that several links are from mainpage to this forum! We have
nothing to hide. The Searchbar from us is indeed not same as
usual standard-bar and we add even new functional benefit
to it in the next versions. Apart from that: yes, by default it
is opt-in. But we tell you about BEFORE. We also thought
about the other way around, but in that case people come
here and complain: Why should I activate it if even you set
it by default to off.
BTW: My name is Locutus, not Lotus ;)

DAEMON Tools is (was?) a great piece of software. The latest version is unfortunately being bundled with adware.

Please note that I actually don't have any thing against adware (FlashGet is adware too, but is one of the best download managers).

But there is a difference between adware and spyware. And as far as the majority of users (and the antispyware tools) are concerned, they both are considered as malware, and are thus viewed as a threat to privacy & security. Hence most companies who convert their software to adware, lose their loyal users quickly.

I think most people who do install adware/spyware-capable programs are not aware of the risks involved. I am a power user and I use tons of free software. But I refrain from using anything that seems to be adware/spyware.

I think you guys could have actually made it donationware (via PayPal) or sold it to some other company. Or even a feature-limited non-commercial edition. Believe me, good software will always have loyal users willing to spend a few dollars for that extra benefits. But no one will buy a software, if it is adware, because even after registering the commercial version, the adware components are just disabled.

The developers of DTv4x say that the adware component is optional, and need not be installed. But this doesn't negate the fact that the adware component (or portions thereof) is still embedded within the software itself (even if it is disabled).

How can we be sure that there is no spying or security concerns, even if we opt-out ? Sadly, we cannot (we would have believed the developers earlier, but not after this adware issue).

Well, all this means that we have to say goodbye to another excellent freeware. Goodbye guys and thanks for all those years of effort. All the best.

LocutusofBorg
21.02.2006, 07:10
of course you're entitled to have your own opinion about how the world turns around and our software.

But please stay at the facts: As long as you opt-out the searchbar, there is not even one single component installed.
So your comments above are simple not true, there is no such
thing like "deactivated" parts. It is simple non-existend then.

Another thing is that (as I stated above, all can write down here their opinions, as long as it is written not offensive it
will be accepted here) we do not share your opinion (obviously).

Where you see no problem with functionality - we decided that this will cause much more handicaps for the casual user.
So we leaved the decision to support us to you. I can
guarantee you: If you opt-out the adware, not one single
component of it would be installed, your system is then
"adwareclean" (at least from our site).

burnsy_xyz
21.02.2006, 09:05
Believe me, good software will always have loyal users willing to spend a few dollars for that extra benefits.

so why didn't you buy a license if deamon tools is that good as you stated.

and yes i bought a license because it's a very good program which made my life much more easier and spent my few bucks also as a tribute to the hard work of locutus, netsoerfer, venom, dogam and anyone else who i forgot to mention and the ones in the background.

nothing more to say

skilef
07.04.2006, 01:00
How nice, another first poster! :D

To make up for it, here are my main reflections on DT and, of course, the Searchbar that seems to cause some concerns with DT users.

I have been using DT for a very long time (say years) and I must say it has been a great piece of software that has helped me out in lots of occasions. Nice plugins made it even better. Even better, it is completely free. I must confess it has never crossed my mind to actually register the software since it has been free for all this time and the things DT enables you to do will most of the time have to do with obtaining other things for free. It's a state of mind or something... ;)

Other people being made out for leechers (in similar searchbar discussions, I've spend some time reading it) and for guys that have to find a job (by some non-administrators) is in my opinion not the right way to go. I have to say Locutus has done a fine job explaining the DT point of view without sounding patronizing in any way. The fact remains that some users maybe still perceive DT as one of the products from the old days. I am usually very alert during installations, especially when it comes to installing software. I've been a system administrator myself for quite some time and I have seen some of the nasty effects of not minimizing PEBKACs.

I was somewhat startled when Whenusave started with a pop-up warning about the security-software notifications. Having installed DT a lot of times without this makes some people less weary, right? Especially when all settings where satisfactory before.. After the pop-up, I immediately decided to uninstall both DT and Whenusave before the necessary reading on the net. Uninstalling DT, fine. Uninstalling Whenusave: no entry in the software list, nu uninstall in the program dir although this uninstall process seems to be an exception. After a 2 minute job (manually deleting start-up entries and the actual files) everything is fine now, but I think even some moderately skilled people can have some problems hacking the registry or finding a safe tool to do it for them.

This said, I do not think any of the DT powerusers have the adware actually installed on their computer. Why not? There are some obvious reasons not to install it, of which I think most people with average computer knowledge are aware because of the anti-malware craze that has been going on for some time now. Following, I think a majority of the DT users (understanding the mounting concept or at least trying to grasp it) is aware of the existence of malware and will not install it when asked so, even when it enables DT to become an even better product with a comparable level of support and resources. That being sad, I cannot escape the conclusion that this little malware-construction is somewhat aiming at the unawareness of some users. Of course, we are warned several times during the process of downloading and installing, but in the end you will get the malware if you proceed through this process when not paying attention. Furthermore, I think the majority of the income you make through Whenusave comes from people that will not install the malware if you present them with a list of pros and cons. Saying that this could be a valuable lesson for some of the users not paying attention is not very constructive in this regard and it does not compute with the positive feeling :) I and possibly some other users have with DT. In this case, I think opt-in is the way to go. I understand your point of view, but it cannot be maintained by only pointing to the EULA etc without admitting that one of the reasons for opt-out is the fact that some people will accidently install the malware. I think this is the main concern that a lot of people (not the phobic ones) have when pointing you to Whenusavenow.

Understanding the financial strain growth can cause it seems more than fair that some sort of compensation is being saught by the DT team, especially when you think of it as a great piece of software. In my own experience, Paypal or something like that will NOT give you the amount of funds necessary to run your nice (yes I still like you guys) operation.

I don't want to judge you, but either critics do not use the right criticism or you do not have the balls to admit that in the end opt-out is more profitable (because of some unwary users) than opt-in or some sort of Paypal-scheme.

Explaining your point of view without considering opt-in versus opt-out and keeping hammering on the possibility to opt out is avoiding the topic. Leaves me to say that your decision to go for the more profitable opt-out (for a (substantial?) part based on the negligence of some users) gives me a spywary feeling when thinking of DT, regardless of the malware being installed independently or the question whether conscious decision-making based on this negligence was involved.

I'm sorry for the long sentences. After this last installation, I will now decide which non-free software is better and I will PAY for it. DT has got the melancholics, the plugins and the fishy spyware taste, Alcohol120 is unknown to me: I will read some reviews and keep the earlier discussion in mind.

Thanks DT for the time I was able to use your nice piece of software for free. I hope that you will reconsider the opt-out strategy and that you consider the opt-out attitude can lose you some (paying) users. After all, they have to try it first, right? Deciding whether you want the most money through unwary folks or a little bit less through the additional paying customers (and people who choose to support you through malware intentionally) is an ethical consideration that you have to weigh out for yourselves. But there's a point to be taken well in the criticism.

And now I'm off to bed: after a hard day of work, there are more important things in life than suddenly getting knocked up with spyware by your favourite piece of software. :D

rebellion
09.04.2006, 17:26
of course you're entitled to have your own opinion about how the world turns around and our software.

But please stay at the facts: As long as you opt-out the searchbar, there is not even one single component installed.
So your comments above are simple not true, there is no such
thing like "deactivated" parts. It is simple non-existend then.

Another thing is that (as I stated above, all can write down here their opinions, as long as it is written not offensive it
will be accepted here) we do not share your opinion (obviously).

Where you see no problem with functionality - we decided that this will cause much more handicaps for the casual user.
So we leaved the decision to support us to you. I can
guarantee you: If you opt-out the adware, not one single
component of it would be installed, your system is then
"adwareclean" (at least from our site).

Personally i choose not to install the adware....but equally i choose to support the DTools crew by buying a license....the guys work very hard...they dont ask for much.....so come on scrooges out there make a donation too.....

The lord giveth and the lord taketh away....

bob_chauvin
28.05.2006, 18:04
I'd pay/donate for a good tool like this. Make it EASY to donante.:) :) :) http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/images/smilies/smile.gif
:)

LocutusofBorg
29.05.2006, 03:47
nothing could be easier:

http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/dt_register.php

See you soon as registered User ;)

bob_chauvin
30.05.2006, 15:15
How about PayPal!

mikkokh
02.06.2006, 10:16
How about one text box on bottom of lecal text screen: that would ask you to write "I SUPPORT" or "I DON'T SUPPORT", or something. Default state of it would be empty, or maby at last time given text - when update. I think that that kind field does not go without any attention on program install, pegause it simply can't be empty. Thats why user should know what she/he will answer to it. Then anybody can't argue begause they understand that adware is one install option - for good reason if you trust to it. Only laziness would be obstacle of install operation... and when it is: shame you! :wink:

Longkong
02.06.2006, 16:41
To make myself clear once again:
you have THREE options:

1) install it with adware
2) install it without adware
3) purchase license - and get adware-free version



It's perhaps a little bit off-topic, but I bought DT and I can't found an ad-Free Version. There is a Version in the Customer-Downloadsection, though it contains the ad-ware... :)

It's not really a problem, but if there is a version without it, I would download it...

Jito463
03.06.2006, 03:51
Until they get the serial system in place, even the customer version has the adware package. Just deselect it during install to skip over it. Once the serial system is fully functioning, then we'll see ad-free customer versions again.

joeboy
03.06.2006, 11:16
Because the customer version of DT 4.0 was leaked from day one by some thoughtless person, version 4.3 was released the same as the public version with adware included. As @Jito463 says above it has been posted that the customer adware free version will return

blackash
16.06.2006, 15:21
For some people "it not what you do, but what you haven't done":rolleyes: these types are never happy with anything one does...:mad: thanks be that there are not many of them.:wink:
Thanks for all the hard work.