To Be Free or Not To Be Free, That Is The Question...

[foxythefox]

And, frankly, Daemon Tools is not free.

There is nothing wrong with not being free, but it should not be presented as free - especially not when it was free of charge at one time. This service is not continuing.

Adware does not make a product free of charge; it comes with a price. There are enough messages on here to show that customers have had problems with their installation, difficulties with the adware etc. to show that the price is being paid. Incorporating adware is considered by many to be a sell-out, and any attempt to explain why it was necessary will fall on deaf ears. People are scared of adware, they are wary of it, they simply don't like it; they don't know much about the workings of their computer, but their computer is very precious to them, and the thought of third-party software is frightening. There is software produced - Adsense, Spybot - created to rid them of these irritations, so it is understood to be an univited guest. And it is not like having a coupon put in your hand - people feel like it takes over the computer and appears at every opportunity. It is not appreciated.

But it looks like Daemon is screwed because they are locked into a contract where the money-providers are calling the shots. That's tough.

This is purported to be the free version of a payed-for product. So, keep it that way. It is best for people's loyalty to a product not to be questioned; and threatening language is best avoided, too: "In order to support FREE distribution of DAEMON Tools we highly encourage you at least to try out this optional software!" This kind of statement says, "It'll be your fault if we have to start charging." And that cannot help.

There have been various suggestions to keep a free version active, eg. set up a PayPal method so that contributions can be made easily. Whatever the case, stop claiming the software is at no charge, or ditch the adware if you can.

Maybe Daemon could offer a version where only one virtual drive can be mounted and registration unlocks another three. It could be called Daemon Tools (Angel of) Lite.

[Kitna]

And, frankly, Daemon Tools is not free.

There is nothing wrong with not being free, but it should not be presented as free - especially not when it was free of charge at one time. This service is not continuing.

Adware does not make a product free of charge; it comes with a price. There are enough messages on here to show that customers have had problems with their installation, difficulties with the adware etc. to show that the price is being paid. Incorporating adware is considered by many to be a sell-out, and any attempt to explain why it was necessary will fall on deaf ears. People are scared of adware, they are wary of it, they simply don't like it; they don't know much about the workings of their computer, but their computer is very precious to them, and the thought of third-party software is frightening. There is software produced - Adsense, Spybot - created to rid them of these irritations, so it is understood to be an univited guest. And it is not like having a coupon put in your hand - people feel like it takes over the computer and appears at every opportunity. It is not appreciated.

But it looks like Daemon is screwed because they are locked into a contract where the money-providers are calling the shots. That's tough.

This is purported to be the free version of a payed-for product. So, keep it that way. It is best for people's loyalty to a product not to be questioned; and threatening language is best avoided, too: "In order to support FREE distribution of DAEMON Tools we highly encourage you at least to try out this optional software!" This kind of statement says, "It'll be your fault if we have to start charging." And that cannot help.

There have been various suggestions to keep a free version active, eg. set up a PayPal method so that contributions can be made easily. Whatever the case, stop claiming the software is at no charge, or ditch the adware if you can.

Maybe Daemon could offer a version where only one virtual drive can be mounted and registration unlocks another three. It could be called Daemon Tools (Angel of) Lite.

I would agree with you except for one small thing.
THE ADWARE IS OPTIONAL!
If it was compulsary you would have a point, but as it stands your long post was completely pointless.

[foxythefox]

It doesn't really matter if the adware is optional - the spirit of it has been compromised. This is the whole point and the reason why it has been grudgingly received. Even the programmers themselves feel uncomfortable with it. They are building a great little program, and they went with adware. That hurts.

If you are irritated with the long post, fair enough. There is no need to make it twice as long by repeating it, and then writing an obvious answer in big red font. You and everybody else knows adware sucks. It casts a shadow over the whole thing. Why'd you think the crowd went wild when Opera ditched theirs?

[LocutusofBorg]

customers are for sure not having probs with adware - it
is not in their installation included.

Your "this kind of statement says "It'll be be your fault if we
have to start charging" is true. Exactly because of that we
made it this way. Exactly that is what we wanted to say.
You got us totally right! Except the term "your fault". See
it as fact, not as "fault". We don't blame anyone if we must
stop public support. Why should we? We just stop then.
Thats all. Point. No further discussion needed then.

Noone is forced to use DT, not you or anyone else.
Personally, if I have a problem with some kind of software
I simple don't use it, whether it's freeware or not. If we stop public support,
we will for sure tell anyone that DT is no longer freeware. Until then, call it
"Freeware with optional adware" or "adware with option to install it as freeware" or
whatever you prefer. Given the fact that millions visit our
website and use DT, the amount of people who rant here
against adware is - seriously - very small. I think you just
overestimate how many people rant against optional(!) adware.

The whole discussion is esotherical. As long as we not force
our users to install adware, there's nothing wrong with it.
It is only wrong for those, who are not able to just uncheck
it - and then complain about it.

Then - and it seems to me that is the only option for those -
deinstall Daemon Tools and don't support us any longer.
I feel sad about that we lose users, however, there's
nothing we can do to convince them it seems to me.

In general some people tend to think we are their employees.
No. We are not. And if you want adfree-version, no need to
"donate" - just purchase license and that's it.

[Kitna]

I agree completely Locutus, I am not having any issues with the adware

[AmphetaMarinE]

I agree completely Locutus, I am not having any issues with the adware

+1

I also have no problem whatsoever with the adware...



P.S. Remember folks... buying this software cost me less than having a frigging pizza delivered....

It is so low cost, and so highly effective, that the meagre amount for a license is pretty much a non-issue....

[TRM]

I'm agree too to you, all 3 last PRE-posters ;-)

And Kita.. your Answer was very, very great (i wont say LOOOOL) ;-)

But all you forgot to say, there will be extra function available, if the DT-Team is donated by users, for these users :-)
.. anytime, DT Pro with such power will come. So i hope for all users, they have a great time and think the right.

[samii]

...
Adware does not make a product free of charge; it comes with a price. There are enough messages on here to show that customers have had problems with their installation, difficulties with the adware etc. to show that the price is being paid. Incorporating adware is considered by many to be a sell-out, and any attempt to explain why it was necessary will fall on deaf ears. People are scared of adware, they are wary of it, they simply don't like it; they don't know much about the workings of their computer, but their computer is very precious to them, and the thought of third-party software is frightening...

I have to agree with foxythefox. How can you really trust ANY adware? Do you, the DT developers like WHENU so much that you use it yourself? IMHO, WHENU is just another "service" that I don't need and never needed in the first place.

There is a previous post about WHENU cleaning up their act after complaints. From this info, you could easily draw the conclusion that in the recent past, WHENU was NOT clean, and the only reason that said "cleaning" was done, was after the complaints. So, you have an adware company with a history of less than acceptable practices.

DT, why not try advertisement space on your site? As one of you mentioned, you receive lots of web page hits. You would seem to have a source of revenue right there.
Adware should be a last resort, and really when you're ready to completely sell-out, and sell your software to someone else who will then take the software to the next step of complete abtrusive and probably hidden-adware components.

I am actually trying to help and suggest, as a lot of other posters seem to be too. So you should not get mad at them for voicing their opinion, especially when it's about ADWARE, which is argueably one of the most dispised things in software today. No matter how much you play up, describe, post info, bless, or whatever, you had to know that adding ADWARE to your product was bound cause some ill will.

[LocutusofBorg]

I have to agree with foxythefox. How can you really trust ANY adware? Do you, the DT developers like WHENU so much that you use it yourself? IMHO, WHENU is just another "service" that I don't need and never needed in the first place.

There is a previous post about WHENU cleaning up their act after complaints. From this info, you could easily draw the conclusion that in the recent past, WHENU was NOT clean, and the only reason that said "cleaning" was done, was after the complaints. So, you have an adware company with a history of less than acceptable practices.

DT, why not try advertisement space on your site? As one of you mentioned, you receive lots of web page hits. You would seem to have a source of revenue right there.
Adware should be a last resort, and really when you're ready to completely sell-out, and sell your software to someone else who will then take the software to the next step of complete abtrusive and probably hidden-adware components.

I am actually trying to help and suggest, as a lot of other posters seem to be too. So you should not get mad at them for voicing their opinion, especially when it's about ADWARE, which is argueably one of the most dispised things in software today. No matter how much you play up, describe, post info, bless, or whatever, you had to know that adding ADWARE to your product was bound cause some ill will.

Then do not use the adware. That's why we included the
option to not install it. We btw don't get mad about your opinions,
why do you think we approve your posts? Especially as we can
simple censor everything? Because we want to hear your
opinion. It is only that we don't share your opinion, that's
all, as long as noone is forced to use it: don't install it.

What the future brings? Who knows... we respect your opinion.

To make myself clear once again:
you have THREE options:

1) install it with adware
2) install it without adware
3) purchase license - and get adware-free version

Again: we receive VERY VERY low complains about it, as 99,9%
of our users don't complain about it because IF they chose to
not install it - they are just thankfull that we leaved this decision to them! In numbers: I received 7 emails about it. seven!

Frankly spoken, our users are much smarter as you guessed.
They don't need our "protection" from the "bad" adware. They
are imho in full control of their systems and apart from that
know what they're doing (what is imho needed anyway as
DaemonTools is nothing you should install without at least
a little bit of knowledge! Therefore that users should also know
whether they want to install it or not for themselves)

And if you think you pay a too high price by supporting us -
no problem, then deinstall adware or not install it at all. Or,
if you as principle don't want to support us: don't install our
application at all. It is easy as that. Sad, but true: What do
you think all this development, webservice and so on costs?
Do you think we talk about some thousand dollars/month?
So purchase DT or install Adware. Or nothing of the both
suggestions. Just install it as standalone. Then it is complete
adfree, cost-free and therefore I would call it freeware. So
IMHO(!) you get what you expect. But of course you are entitled to
call it whatever you want.

You can be assured: We monitor our partners VERY well. What
they did in the past is not relevant now. Otherwise we would
behave like neanderthal man. They had good reason to stop
their practices and if we ever see such practices HERE we will
asap remove the ad-project.

Thank you for your suggestions anyway. If you're not logged
in, you will already see advertisement (google adsense). This
revenues will not even pay our loadbalancer

[Yoshio]

i always wondered about the advertisement idea.. i mean with so many people coming to the site to see if the new version was out or not.. why not get some advertisement revenue? even if they do that in addition to the 'adaware' you would think that would cut down on the devs/admins bashing users cos they arent paying for it.. if your that hard up for revenue.....

[a203xi]

"Oh, you don't have to install it, so that automatically makes it ok"

I can understand wanting money and all, but if you want it, theres other ways to do it. Ads on a website, or a forum are ok, having a 'Please donate if you like our software' message box once you install is fine, but to actually take the nerve of installing actual ads onto someone's computer is not just invasive, it's wrong. You can come up with whatever excuse as to how this is justified (Oh not that many people have complained, you can not install it, etc, etc) but it's still unjust, if you don't want to listen to us that's fine but there's other ways to make revenue, and it doesn't look like you've even considered any of them. Oh and the description about the ad-ware on the DL page makes it seem like a fucking info-mercial.

[TRM]

I can understand wanting money and all, but if you want it, theres other ways to do it. Ads on a website, or a forum are
[..]
Oh and the description about the ad-ware on the DL page makes it seem like a fucking info-mercial.

Hello, some peoble, like you, dont UNDERSTAND the installation-process or cant/wont read (the simpliest way is just klick on OK, SURE..) but the fact is:

IT IS ALWAYS YOUR CHOICE TO USE AND TO INSTALL DAEMON-TOOLS. IN FACT OF YOUR CHOICE FOR DAEMON-TOOLS YOU HAVE SOME OPTIONS

There are like:
Install it READ AND Understand what you are trying to install, there is an option to UNCHECK the Adwarecomponent. BUT it's necessary to UNDERSTAND the words, even like the simple word OK.
And the other side is to buy the software. So you never gets Adware by Daemon-Tools from the original Website..

And the 3th way is to uninstall the Searchbar after install Daemon-Tools.

So why you want to piss on the DT-Team, especially Locutus?

[LocutusofBorg]

why? Because most of the people can't imagine what it costs
to run such a project - they just don't even think we work
hard. I learned all this the hard way. Although 99% of our
users are really nice persons and in general not so easy get
in rage, there are always persons who freak out, regardless
what you do. This is the price for being "popular".

Some guys even know better how to make this and that, they
send us their suggestions or post here and have absolutley no
idea what happened behind the scenery. The last poster above
you, a203xi, don't even read my last post carefully. With
popularity, there comes always this problems, I guess it can't
be avoided. People complain here although they don't have to
pay a single cent for it. For what we post. For HOW we post.
For not deliver it asap. For slow website. For new design. For
the hunger in the world and their personal problems (yes, I
know this is a fact, I already discussed with such people)

They told us we are idiots, greedy and
we are the slowest developers they ever see. The list is end-
less. I think the honor people now understand why we need
from time to time some nice words. If you are not able to
chose "not install DaemonTools Searchbar" - then better don't
install DaemonTools at all. It might be a too complex application for you

[bernaar]

and it doesn't look like you've even considered any of them..

Seems like it doesn't look that you even considered reading the info.
You have the ability to UNCHECK the adware install!

[TRM]

I think the honor people now understand why we need
from time to time some nice words. If you are not able to
chose "not install DaemonTools Searchbar" - then better don't
install DaemonTools at all. It might be a too complex application for you

Hi Locutus, the first part is very good. I hope a little 'Welcome on our hard, cold world, you little DTx64' is enough ;-)
Hey, it's a joke but next week i will hopefully can run a x64 OS, only the Hardware is on the postway now :-/
So then i can post my expierience to the new kind of your team :-)

The 2nd part - i hope it's not for me ;-)

Have a nice weekend, try to sleep :-)

~M.