Dt Is Legal! (please Post)

[Chapty]

Sorry if i posted this in the wrong froum or something.

Look, a friend of mine claims that "even the act of installing Daemon Tools on your computer is a serious crime".

I know he's wrong, but when i try to convince him he says that he is 100% sure and he doesn't care what I tell him.
Now, it's of great importance that I convince him that Daemon Tools indeed is legal to install and use, as long as you don't use it to mount illegal files (which I don't).

Can you please help me? (All you need to do is post and say something like "Daemon Tools is legal!")

[Jito463]

Of course it's legal. DTools even has government agencies that license their software. It depends on where you live, I suppose. But I'm not aware of any governments that outlaw it's use.

[persiankitty]

Now, it's of great importance that I convince him that Daemon Tools indeed is legal to install and use, as long as you don't use it to mount illegal files (which I don't).

Look, Some believe that such questions makes other ppl insane. So most often such questions or free talking about this subject is not possible. Basically, with the condition of not mounting illegal files, DT is legal. It is a legal program at all. But 95% of its usage is to publish pirated copies. Look what is happening in the real world. Protection authors are blacklisting DT simply, and the DT authors are fighting with this fact. I already asked too many huge multimedia publisher in my local region about they idea about DT and the programs that use its engine for emulation. No wonder that all of them are agreed that DT is used as a cracking material in our contry , and also they agreed to blacklist the DT in their application , and even agreed to directly show a prompt to end-user about uninstalling the DT engine before using their products.
The problem is not DT at all. Although I think they can go more in deep behind this tool to support more protections , and they dont for some reasons ... but the problem itself begins with the copyright law. where any owner of the original stuff has the right to make several backup copies of his original CD , so DT and similar programs can live targeting their goal to make such backups. Using the pirated copy of programs are within ppl culture , and it can not be changed with such fights between protection developer and backup utility developers. Ppl need to underestand why they pay. They may never underestand even as the income is very diffrent around the world.
I found this subject an endless useless thing to think or talk about, there is milions diffrent idea and every one thinks on his own side about this. But if you want to vote on this to keep your friend believing you are right, for your sake I tell you ... Using DT is not illegal , just ppl like to use it in the illegal way.

[Zyxthior]

The law varies depending on what country you are in. Here in the United State, the 'use' of Daemon-Tools is not illegal...I'm not sure how any use of it could be contrued as illegal.

What is illegal (under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act ('DMCA') is the act of bypassing a copy protection scheme for any reason.

So while the law allows you to make a backup of any type of digital content your own...it is still illegal to bypass a copy protection scheme FOR ANY REASON, even if it's a personal backup of something you already own--the catch 22 of course is that just about everything has a copy protection scheme attached to it (effectively making it illegal for a person to backup anything they own...because the circumvention of a copy protection scheme is illegal...not the actual backing up of the underlying legally owned content).

Messed up, ain't it.

So I guess--in theory (under US Law anyway)--DTools does not BYPASS any copyprotection. That job is left to Alcohol or the like...

[Kinlaadare]

It's even more complicated in France with the DAVSI law.

[estimablesir]

It sounds like your friend is one of those people who will insist that he/she is correct no matter what kind of evidence you can put forth to support your argument. Instead, why don't you tell him to offer YOU proof that daemon tools is an illegitimate piece of software (in the United States). Post it here, I'd be interested in seeing it.

[Jito463]

What is illegal (under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act ('DMCA') is the act of bypassing a copy protection scheme for any reason.

So while the law allows you to make a backup of any type of digital content your own...it is still illegal to bypass a copy protection scheme FOR ANY REASON, even if it's a personal backup of something you already own

No, that's a misunderstanding of the law. It's illegal under the DMCA to sell software that cracks or removes ENCRYPTION, not copy protection. They are two very different things. The reason why DVD movies fall under that catagory is because CSS - as weak and ineffective as it is - is still an encryption scheme. And it's not illegal for us to remove that encryption, just for the companies to sell the software that does it. That's what drove 3-2-1 Studios and their DVD X-Copy out of business. They sold software that removed CSS encryption and allowed you to backup your discs. The only thing we could get in trouble for is if we removed the CSS and then made copies to give away/sell to others.

[mwb1100]

No, that's a misunderstanding of the law. It's illegal under the DMCA to sell software that cracks or removes ENCRYPTION, not copy protection. They are two very different things. The reason why DVD movies fall under that catagory is because CSS - as weak and ineffective as it is - is still an encryption scheme. And it's not illegal for us to remove that encryption, just for the companies to sell the software that does it. That's what drove 3-2-1 Studios and their DVD X-Copy out of business. They sold software that removed CSS encryption and allowed you to backup your discs. The only thing we could get in trouble for is if we removed the CSS and then made copies to give away/sell to others.

Jito, I think you may not be correct here. DMCA has 2 provisions regarding removing access controls - in the first, it specifically outlaws *the act* of removing access controls. In the second provision, it outlaws the sale of tools to circumvent access controls.

So technically, just using DeCSS may be in violation of the DMCA in the US - no commerce needs to take place.

Also, the DMCA does not cover only encryption, but any 'technological' measure to control access to digital media. Agfa threatened to invoke the DMCA to eliminate a tool that simply cleared some bits in TrueType files that indicated the font should not be embedded in documents. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they would have prevailed, but there's enough in the DMCA that made the threat (along with money to back up the threat) credible.

For details on these issue, a nice easy read is:

http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/20020503_dmca_consequences.pdf

As to whether any of this applies to Daemon-Tools, I don't think it does (since I think any circumvention has already happened before DT get hold of the images) but I really don't know and don't care. DT is available for me to use for the things I want to do with it, and as far as I'm concerned, the Congress, MPAA and whoever can shove the DMCA...

Of course, on this last point I can only speak for myself.

[LocutusofBorg]

away with this shit - especially some people really think
they know a shit about DT and their users

best is this:

But 95% of its usage is to publish pirated copies.

I asking myself - how could persiankitty know exactly that
amount?

Most people use not emulators, they simple download complete
images + cracks, hands down

No wonder people get bad opinion about us when even on OUR
site such people who believe that they know
exactly WHO use DT for WHAT reason post such crap!
Seems Persiankitty knows 95% of all ~20 million DT-users!
gosh!