Any possibility of a revamp of DT Pro agreements?

[Qazarr]

When I saw the announcement on the front page that DT Pro was available for purchase, I immediately opened up the page to buy it but I am completely dumbfounded by the lack of information easily available on the software. I've been reading this forum for roughly an hour finding the different features of it, but I'm still not exactly sure why I would want this version over the free version. Nonetheless, I'm having a much harder time being "sold" on the software after reading a bunch of unreliable posts about it. I've gone from "yes, yes, god yes!" to "what the hell is this?" in fact.

Is there a feature list for the software anywhere in an easily accessible place? The publisher's website doesn't compare the differences between the free version and the Pro version.

I only use the software as a drive emulator, for everything from games to applications to data archives and more. I keep a lot of data on my PC to be burned frequently, and I've found it much easier to just store the ISO image instead of keeping a "master copy" laying around. I've become pretty dependent on it lately, and I really enjoy having this convenience so I'd be happy to pay for it.

So that brings me to some questions:

1) If I'm only using this as a drive emulator, what incentive is there to get the pro version? Does it even have any other features?

2) The activation processes I've read about seem to be a huge inconvenience for some one like me who can't guarantee that I won't have an active internet connection for 2 or more weeks at a time. When the program "deactivates" itself, does this mean I cannot even use it to mount images or does it just lose some of its other functionality (which I'm still shady about it even having more functionality)? In either of those cases, what incentive is there for me to pay for this additional headache when the free version has no such inconveniences?

3) Is the yearly re-subscription fee the same as the initial purchase? There isn't even a mention on the distribution site about this being a one year subscription to update services. I'd also appreciate not being condescended to by being told "well, you're just buying the current version, and you get FREE updates so it isn't a subscription" because, pragmatically, it is a subscription. An old version of DT is completely useless to most of us.

From the sound of things as it is right now, buying DT Pro would be asking me to subscribe to a yearly service for something that is available for free, and if I fail to sustain an active internet connection for 2 weeks it will quit working on me. I feel like I'd be put in the situation of having to download the free version along with the paid for version just in case the DT Pro version quits working for some reason, and I don't understand my incentives as a consumer to pay for something that will get outdated without a subscription (where the free version does not) and which will punish me for being unplugged from the internet for extended periods of time (where the free one, again, does not).

I guess this post may seem a bit recalcitrant at this point, but I really want to understand why I should buy this thing. I've used Daemon Tools for years and I would like to patronize its creators some way... it just doesn't seem like this is being executed very well to me.

Regarding the adware version:

Does the adware supported DT deactivate itself without a constant internet connection?

If I do not have an internet connection, is the adware version's ad service incapable of launching?

Does the "adware" in the adware version uninstall with the Free DT Pro distribution?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Alco]

Thanks a lot for your feedback!

Sorry for any possible inconvenience. We are a bit overwhelmed now by customers messages and their interest after launch of DT Pro.
But in near future we would definitely add more info into our FAQs and online helps.


Here quickly regarding most important questions:

1)
main difference between DT and DT Pro:
DT Pro is capable to make CD/DVD images (DT can only mount images already made before )

2)
after you would complete "check for update", you can use DT Pro up to 25 days without Internet connection

3)
You can use your DT Pro license for an unlimited period of time, but free updates to DT Pro version 4 are limited to 1 year period.

4)
Yes, Adware version has more strict requirements for having Internet connection.

If there is something unclear for you, please post it heere in this thread.

[Novecento]

another huge difference between regular DT and DT Pro is the announced and yet to be released virtual IDE drive which hopefully will render most SCSI blacklistings from CP creators useless.

+ DT Pro can create working TAGES images way faster that VirtualCD!

[Qazarr]

Yes, actually. All of my initial questions remain unanswered except the first one. Perhaps you could revisit them with some more clarity or depth?

It's nice to know I can manually "tag" your servers with a "check for update" process, but that doesn't answer my question of what incentive I should have to pay for that inconvenience. I'm glad to know DT Pro can (hopefully reliably) create images, that would definitely be interesting to me so that I wouldn't have to use a bunch of different software to achieve proper backups. I just don't understand the incentive for me to pay for it when I can use two different pieces of software, (DT and Alcohol, for instance) and have a self-enclosed internet independent software package that can do exactly the same thing for far less money and no yearly subscription fees. Heh, I guess I'm asking you to "sell" it to me since after researching it I can't fathom why anyone would pay for it given the activation/internet check headaches.

I understand that this is your first launch into commercial software and that customer demands are probably much larger than what you anticipated to deal with. Would it be better if I came back in a few months once things have calmed down?

I guess I could simplify everything by giving you my situation: In October I will be flying to Santiago, Chile and from there I will be accommodated in various places throughout the country and into Bolivia over a 4 month period. During this time it is unlikely that I will have stable internet connectivity, and I wouldn't be surprised if my internet access is limited completely to trips to the city to make use of e-mail there. I would like to have Daemon Tools installed on my machine so that I can play some games I've backed up as a recreation in my off time, and my constantly changing lodgings will all but prohibit me lugging around a bunch of unnecessary and easily lost disks.

Given this circumstance, what would you suggest I do? Can you honestly advocate using DT Pro in this case?

I'd really like to buy the software, but it sounds like it's going to be completely useless to me. Not only will it be functional for only 25 days from my last internet "tag" session, I'll be paying a yearly fee for functionality available elsewhere cheaper. Does DT Pro have more support for backups than the free version or something? I just bought the game "Overlord" (which uses a new version of SecuROM) yesterday, and one of the major reasons I came by the site is that I couldn't get it working in version 4.09H with SPTD 1.49b and the most updated YASU... would a DT Pro-created image on DT Pro with SPTD 1.50 work? It sounds like no, that DT Pro is just more convenient for creating images, but that it is completely offset for its inability to function without internet connectivity and its yearly fees to stay updated.

Thank you for the quick response though, I'm sure my penchant for long winded argument isn't exactly appreciated in these pressing times for you guys!

[Jito463]

Regarding question 2, the image mounting functionality of DT Pro will still work, but the image creation functionality will be disabled if it cannot contact the activation servers within 25 days of the last contact (I originally thought it was 2 weeks, but Alco would know better than I).

As for your 3rd question, you aren't buying a "subscription" to DT Pro, you're buying a 1-year license for DT Pro. After that, you have to buy another 1-year license if you want any further updates. The license is the same price each year. Alcohol does the same thing, though admittedly they do offer a lifetime license. And it's possible that the DT team may offer lifetime licenses in the future. But for now, it's a 1-year license.

[Alco]

1)
Alc does not support Tages and a bit later DT pro will have vIDE feature.

2)
Of course if you like more other similar software applications then you should prefer them: it is a customer choice.

3)
You can continue to use you DT Pro more than 1 year, only updates are limited to 1 year period.

[johngalt]

Man, I have been out of touch - I knew the Pro was being developed, but I forgot all about it - but this reading, as I understand it (and I see that Qazarr has already asked many of the same questions and had many of the same thoughts as I have had) means that image creation is disabled - is there *any* way to get it back - for example, if my house were to be flooded, and I was not able to get online for a period of time exceeding 25 days, through no fault of my own, how would I go about getting the issue resolved that I am a paying customer and want the license re-instated so I can burn images again? That concerns me more than anything - well, that and the licensing period - I am not really sure I want the added benefit of being able to burn discs with the added inconvenience of having to pay every year, but that is a different ballgame....

Basically what I am asking is is there a system already in place, or at least in the works, to achieve my request above?

[LooDos]

if u are not online for more than 25 days you can revoke your licence online and then you get a new one.

[BEAN Harry]

I would have been very glad to support DT team by buying the Pro version, but, up to now, I find rules too inconvenient.

I shall wait until they become more easy-going (may be...).

Regards.

[johngalt]

if u are not online for more than 25 days you can revoke your licence online and then you get a new one.

Ahhh, so that will work if something were to happen and the Image creation were disabled. Makes sense.

Thanks for clarifying that - I wasn't sure but now I am.

[ß]

I'm having a much harder time being "sold" on the software after reading a bunch of unreliable posts about it. I've gone from "yes, yes, god yes!" to "what the hell is this?"

why do you need to be sold on it ?

dt pro is a software program, like many before it, that lets end users create images of software discs. (ie: like alcohol or virtual cd or virtual drive or cd mate or even nero. nero, in so far as it can create basic non protected images)

the difference between regular daemon tools (available for free for many years for private use), as pointed out already, is that the pro is like a parent version to dt. it has everything dt has and then some. (ie: it actually makes images as opposed to just mounting them)

if you already use alcohol or another program to create your images, and then use regular dt to mount them then you may not actually need dt pro right now. the main reason that i purchased dt pro was two fold; to support the dt team for doing a great job in the war for customer choice, and because of the even then announced tages support. then being years ago.

sounds like you really want to be convinced. there's no need for that. but alcohol since you mention it also has activation. so perhaps a reason would be thus: on your current system you would have less "clutter" because dt pro now replaces alcohol for making images (should you choose so) and also regular dt for mounting since dt pro also has a built in virtual drive. and at the moment the v4.10.0215 dt pro virtual drive is more "enhanced" (read: powerful) then the current v4.09.01 of regular dt. (ie: tages games that crash the system)

to aliviate your fears, you can have both regular dt and dt pro installed and running on the same setup (i have done this, in fact i have several other 3d party virtual drive programs on one of my test beds for testing purposes.) so when you go to south america and dt pro "shuts down" you can simply mount your images using regular dt.

at this moment in time there are only two commercially available programs that can create working tages images of modern games. dt pro is one of those, and i believe, the far better one. (around one minute and thirty second for the tages dpm as opposed to several hours with a competitor's product) {cd space, a third, such program was the first to support tages but is now well and truly abandoned}
tages, you ask ? yes a commercial protection system for software, mainly used on games. several new games use this protection right now and there are more games to arrive with tages. alcohol at this stage does not support this protection.

another reason ? how about that it's yet another image making program using it's own engine, different to alcohol and other software. what does this mean ? i'll explain by giving you a personal example. supreme commander, a pc game, using sony's securom protection is a game i (and several other users) had trouble making an image with other software, i did eventually manage a working image but it took over three hours. this was a few months ago before dt pro. so obviously, i used another program. after dt pro was released i remade the image to see if dt pro can make it quicker and also extract a finer MDS, because even thou my earlier image worked the MDS looked a little rough. (securom is reasonably tolerant) well sure enough, dt pro finished the image in 19 minutes flat and the MDS was perfect. so, having multiple programs that do the same job is a good choice for end users. one doesn't work ? try another.

last but not least $US27 for 90% of dt pro users is peanuts.
how do i know this ? i do, based on many factors. many users freely in their signatures or otherwise show what hardware they use, proudly. from there, i can safely deduct, that what they spend on their hardware (assuming it's not stolen) is less then 1% of the cost of dt pro. also if most dt pro users use the program to make game images, as opposed to non protected discs, and i would place this audience at around 75%-95%, then it is safe to assume that they have several original game discs purchased for anywhere from $US10-$US50 each. so again, what's $US27?? a pizza meal ? a couple of pack of smokes ? a shitty bottle of wine ? you get the idea. (you said it yourself, that you used dt for years - how about a moral donation just for that, and you still get dt pro to pissfart around with.)

engage me in conversation and i will reply in kind.

[strchild]

Hmmm,..

I would gladly pay for Daemon-Tools as a thanks for the many good years of not needing my discs in drive to play my games, but not without seconding the notion about requiring internet access for full functionality.

Yell at me all you like, but even Microsoft is not so bold.

In response to the other post, I never had difficulty creating a working image of my Supreme Commander disc using some other <unnamed> 3rd party software, do not use Alcohol, and my image took about the same time DT Pro claims to have taken to make the same image.

My only benefit for paying is IDE drive support that is promised in a future release.

Currently, I don't need IDE drive support, so the whole issue becomes moot however since I have seen the question neither asked nor answered directly, does anybody know if IDE drive functionality will also be taken away if internet support is not maintained? I would hope that since the IDE drive functionality would be more geared toward reading of images than creating, it should not be adversely affected.

~Another happy customer

[PegHorse]

I'll wait that team offer a lifetime licenses, not a one year
While waiting that i'm using the adaware version.

[PegHorse]

I would gladly pay for Daemon-Tools as a thanks for the many good years of not needing my discs in drive to play my games, but not without seconding the notion about requiring internet access for full functionality.
Yell at me all you like, but even Microsoft is not so bold.
In response to the other post, I never had difficulty creating a working image of my Supreme Commander disc using some other <unnamed> 3rd party software, do not use Alcohol, and my image took about the same time DT Pro claims to have taken to make the same image.
My only benefit for paying is IDE drive support that is promised in a future release.
Currently, I don't need IDE drive support, so the whole issue becomes moot however since I have seen the question neither asked nor answered directly, does anybody know if IDE drive functionality will also be taken away if internet support is not maintained? I would hope that since the IDE drive functionality would be more geared toward reading of images than creating, it should not be adversely affected.
~Another happy customer

Ok you are my friend, i think exactly same as you
However to test all functionnality i have installed the version with Adaware.

[Qazarr]

Regarding question 2, the image mounting functionality of DT Pro will still work, but the image creation functionality will be disabled if it cannot contact the activation servers within 25 days of the last contact (I originally thought it was 2 weeks, but Alco would know better than I).
As for your 3rd question, you aren't buying a "subscription" to DT Pro, you're buying a 1-year license for DT Pro. After that, you have to buy another 1-year license if you want any further updates. The license is the same price each year. Alcohol does the same thing, though admittedly they do offer a lifetime license. And it's possible that the DT team may offer lifetime licenses in the future. But for now, it's a 1-year license.

Ah, thanks. I'll still be able to use the software, I just won't be able to create images. Will the (not yet implemented) IDE driver be shut off as well, though?

You are of a position to give "official" responses, though, right? I'm sorry if I seem pedantic here but the product description pages are so very, very skimpy with their information that I'm very eager to have these things settled before agreeing to the purchase.

I guess it's a marketing decision to repeatedly say "it's not a subscription, it's a license" but, as I said, pragmatically there is no difference if we want to continue using the software for more updated games with newer copy protection. You kind of make it sound like we just need a one year license and we're set, which isn't the case. However, I don't mind the yearly LICENSING FEE, if that's the way I should phrase it. It seems fair, particularly if the IDE functionality is truly that much of a reduction in headache.

If a lifetime license may be available in the future that's some incentive for me to wait and see if this happens, unless of course there were plans to reduce the cost of a lifetime membership based on existing license purchases. I would be very interested in a lifetime license.

I would have been very glad to support DT team by buying the Pro version, but, up to now, I find rules too inconvenient.
I shall wait until they become more easy-going (may be...).
Regards.

I would gladly pay for Daemon-Tools as a thanks for the many good years of not needing my discs in drive to play my games, but not without seconding the notion about requiring internet access for full functionality.
Yell at me all you like, but even Microsoft is not so bold.
In response to the other post, I never had difficulty creating a working image of my Supreme Commander disc using some other <unnamed> 3rd party software, do not use Alcohol, and my image took about the same time DT Pro claims to have taken to make the same image.
My only benefit for paying is IDE drive support that is promised in a future release.
Currently, I don't need IDE drive support, so the whole issue becomes moot however since I have seen the question neither asked nor answered directly, does anybody know if IDE drive functionality will also be taken away if internet support is not maintained? I would hope that since the IDE drive functionality would be more geared toward reading of images than creating, it should not be adversely affected.
~Another happy customer

You two seem to exemplify my own concerns here for the most part. I, too, also believe that at least by virtue of convention that internet reliance will eventually be removed because it isn't always possible for consumers to keep active connections going. It's frustrating as a consumer to run into this sort of thing, but it's kind of difficult either for us to understand the programmers' motivations for this completely, or for them to understand our aversion to it.

I hope that perhaps eventually DT Pro's "update" feature is the only thing that will require key activation and validation.

why do you need to be sold on it ?

Because I'm looking to buy it, perhaps, and I'm trying to find reason to offset the necessity of internet activity.

***EDITED OUT FOR CHARACTER LIMIT***

at this moment in time there are only two commercially available programs that can create working tages images of modern games. dt pro is one of those, and i believe, the far better one. (around one minute and thirty second for the tages dpm as opposed to several hours with a competitor's product) {cd space, a third, such program was the first to support tages but is now well and truly abandoned}
tages, you ask ? yes a commercial protection system for software, mainly used on games. several new games use this protection right now and there are more games to arrive with tages. alcohol at this stage does not support this protection.
another reason ? how about that it's yet another image making program using it's own engine, different to alcohol and other software. what does this mean ? i'll explain by giving you a personal example. supreme commander, a pc game, using sony's securom protection is a game i (and several other users) had trouble making an image with other software, i did eventually manage a working image but it took over three hours. this was a few months ago before dt pro. so obviously, i used another program. after dt pro was released i remade the image to see if dt pro can make it quicker and also extract a finer MDS, because even thou my earlier image worked the MDS looked a little rough. (securom is reasonably tolerant) well sure enough, dt pro finished the image in 19 minutes flat and the MDS was perfect. so, having multiple programs that do the same job is a good choice for end users. one doesn't work ? try another.
last but not least $US27 for 90% of dt pro users is peanuts.
how do i know this ? i do, based on many factors. many users freely in their signatures or otherwise show what hardware they use, proudly. from there, i can safely deduct, that what they spend on their hardware (assuming it's not stolen) is less then 1% of the cost of dt pro. also if most dt pro users use the program to make game images, as opposed to non protected discs, and i would place this audience at around 75%-95%, then it is safe to assume that they have several original game discs purchased for anywhere from $US10-$US50 each. so again, what's $US27?? a pizza meal ? a couple of pack of smokes ? a shitty bottle of wine ? you get the idea. (you said it yourself, that you used dt for years - how about a moral donation just for that, and you still get dt pro to pissfart around with.)
engage me in conversation and i will reply in kind.

It's not a matter of affording it, it's a matter of paying for a service that I can't really use to its fullest extent. I approach every purchase I make from this perspective, otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford the luxury of purchasing a software package primarily out of appreciation for its creators. $27/year is the cost of DT as it is, and that seems more than reasonable for what it does. Its restrictions, however, prohibit my free use of the software... which is exactly what drew me to DT in the first place, the free use of software I payed for in the first place. It's very counterintuitive for me to see DT Pro have some protection on it that is more of a hassle than most CD Protection, and it's not something that really "sits well" with me.

This thread has been very helpful in explaining the features that weren't readily available on the main site or the publisher's site though, and for all of its information I am quite thankful. I'm definitely sold on the features of the software. I can only tentatively assume, though, that I will ever own DT Pro at this time for its limitations.

If DT Pro offered a lifetime license for ~$150 and didn't have the bi-weekly "check in" requirement for my own software, I'd own it right this instant. No ifs ands or buts about it. As it is, what it feels like is that I'm being asked to lease the software, and that if I ever go outside of my electronic dog collar range it will quit working. That's the issue, and when I ask to be "sold" I'm asking for rationale that supports me giving up the freedom of ownership of this software for the features.

Thus far, the only thing available to DT Pro that is not available on other less restrictive software packages is its IDE driver that may make image creation much easier and more reliable... and it isn't even implemented. I'm a fan of DT though, so I'm willing to put up with mediocrity in some areas just out of appreciation for the years of support for the original DT. I just don't think I'm quite willing to pledge such dedication to it that I would succumb to the very limitations that I am trying to avoid from the CD Protection crap I'm trying to get around. The whole reason I got DT in the first place was to secure the ownership of my own software. I'm open to being convinced, though.