To Be Free or Not To Be Free, That Is The Question...

[Kitna]

You do have a point, many people do just click away through installers without reading. But maybe this should be a lesson to them to stop and read what they are installing...

Chances are that if they didn't read the D-Tools installer then they are infected by a whole lot of spy/malware anyway.
Most likely they won't even notice additional ads.

[brad3485]

Can anyone please explain why save.exe locked my cpu on 100% usage as explained in my thread entitled "100% cpu usage" for minutes at a time?

[TRM]

Can anyone please explain why save.exe locked my cpu on 100% usage as explained in my thread entitled "100% cpu usage" for minutes at a time?

Can anyone please explain what save.exe is ?

Man (or woman) try to think. How ever here can know, what you are doing with you computer. Try to determinate, who's save.exe stored, then try a google-search and then if you have additional facts, you can ask again.

[DrTalon]

Googled it...

Looks like the WhenU thing. According to http://www.liutilities.com/products/...slibrary/save/ it's a registered security risk because it's spyware.

Back on topic, I don't complain about dtv4 having adware for 2 reasons: 1, i haven't installed it because I don't have any games that dtv347 can't handle, and 2, because I didn't pay for it.

If you want to whine about something, go whine about Sony's MediaMax or XCP software - Free windows exploits and security holes bundled with a $20 cd! At least this a) clearly states theres adware, and b) doesn't cost anything to obtain.

As for clicking through installers, thats me. Then again I tend to run virus scanners and other scanners on a daily basis, so stuff tends to show up if it shouldn't be there (cept the sims 2, aparently thats not a virus, adware, spyware, or malware, but it shouldn'tve been on this pc anyways).

Oh, and the topic title is misleading in my opinion. Dtools is free, and so is the spyware you can install (or not, if you choose to not install it). Worst case scenario is the dtool developers get annoyed with topics like this one and make dtools shareware. Granted it'd be without ad/spy/malware, but then us non-contributers would be forced to use old versions that don't work with new games. Is that what you want? Is it?

BTW, thanks to the developers for making a kickass program, and a big THUMBS DOWN to the people who think less of the dev's for putting in adware. It's their software - you just use it.

[TRM]

I guess you, DrTalon :-)

But if you want to use DT4 you dont need to install the adware too. It's a singleclick to make it adfree.

Have a nice day, with best regards
~M.

[DrTalon]

I know i can turn it off, just never needed to upgrade. After all, why fix it if it aint broke

[veekay]

I guess I can save my time to answer that, all that I can say
was already said. If you can't read our releasenotes before
you install, you are not in the condition to come here and
complain. Apart from that: Yes, of course we want that many
people install it. The whole discussion here is pointless.
I say: take a look to this forum - do you have the feeling that
we have a "loyalty problem"? Not from my statistics here. But
loyalty is nothing you can eat, think about it. You have always
the option to not install DaemonTools in general - deinstall it
and you have 100% no problem, at least not with us. One
comment: If you think we are that "hiders" and try to fool you:
why is that thread here? Why is your post here? Remember
that several links are from mainpage to this forum! We have
nothing to hide. The Searchbar from us is indeed not same as
usual standard-bar and we add even new functional benefit
to it in the next versions. Apart from that: yes, by default it
is opt-in. But we tell you about BEFORE. We also thought
about the other way around, but in that case people come
here and complain: Why should I activate it if even you set
it by default to off.
BTW: My name is Locutus, not Lotus

DAEMON Tools is (was?) a great piece of software. The latest version is unfortunately being bundled with adware.

Please note that I actually don't have any thing against adware (FlashGet is adware too, but is one of the best download managers).

But there is a difference between adware and spyware. And as far as the majority of users (and the antispyware tools) are concerned, they both are considered as malware, and are thus viewed as a threat to privacy & security. Hence most companies who convert their software to adware, lose their loyal users quickly.

I think most people who do install adware/spyware-capable programs are not aware of the risks involved. I am a power user and I use tons of free software. But I refrain from using anything that seems to be adware/spyware.

I think you guys could have actually made it donationware (via PayPal) or sold it to some other company. Or even a feature-limited non-commercial edition. Believe me, good software will always have loyal users willing to spend a few dollars for that extra benefits. But no one will buy a software, if it is adware, because even after registering the commercial version, the adware components are just disabled.

The developers of DTv4x say that the adware component is optional, and need not be installed. But this doesn't negate the fact that the adware component (or portions thereof) is still embedded within the software itself (even if it is disabled).

How can we be sure that there is no spying or security concerns, even if we opt-out ? Sadly, we cannot (we would have believed the developers earlier, but not after this adware issue).

Well, all this means that we have to say goodbye to another excellent freeware. Goodbye guys and thanks for all those years of effort. All the best.

[LocutusofBorg]

of course you're entitled to have your own opinion about how the world turns around and our software.

But please stay at the facts: As long as you opt-out the searchbar, there is not even one single component installed.
So your comments above are simple not true, there is no such
thing like "deactivated" parts. It is simple non-existend then.

Another thing is that (as I stated above, all can write down here their opinions, as long as it is written not offensive it
will be accepted here) we do not share your opinion (obviously).

Where you see no problem with functionality - we decided that this will cause much more handicaps for the casual user.
So we leaved the decision to support us to you. I can
guarantee you: If you opt-out the adware, not one single
component of it would be installed, your system is then
"adwareclean" (at least from our site).

[burnsy_xyz]

Believe me, good software will always have loyal users willing to spend a few dollars for that extra benefits.

so why didn't you buy a license if deamon tools is that good as you stated.

and yes i bought a license because it's a very good program which made my life much more easier and spent my few bucks also as a tribute to the hard work of locutus, netsoerfer, venom, dogam and anyone else who i forgot to mention and the ones in the background.

nothing more to say

[skilef]

How nice, another first poster!

To make up for it, here are my main reflections on DT and, of course, the Searchbar that seems to cause some concerns with DT users.

I have been using DT for a very long time (say years) and I must say it has been a great piece of software that has helped me out in lots of occasions. Nice plugins made it even better. Even better, it is completely free. I must confess it has never crossed my mind to actually register the software since it has been free for all this time and the things DT enables you to do will most of the time have to do with obtaining other things for free. It's a state of mind or something...

Other people being made out for leechers (in similar searchbar discussions, I've spend some time reading it) and for guys that have to find a job (by some non-administrators) is in my opinion not the right way to go. I have to say Locutus has done a fine job explaining the DT point of view without sounding patronizing in any way. The fact remains that some users maybe still perceive DT as one of the products from the old days. I am usually very alert during installations, especially when it comes to installing software. I've been a system administrator myself for quite some time and I have seen some of the nasty effects of not minimizing PEBKACs.

I was somewhat startled when Whenusave started with a pop-up warning about the security-software notifications. Having installed DT a lot of times without this makes some people less weary, right? Especially when all settings where satisfactory before.. After the pop-up, I immediately decided to uninstall both DT and Whenusave before the necessary reading on the net. Uninstalling DT, fine. Uninstalling Whenusave: no entry in the software list, nu uninstall in the program dir although this uninstall process seems to be an exception. After a 2 minute job (manually deleting start-up entries and the actual files) everything is fine now, but I think even some moderately skilled people can have some problems hacking the registry or finding a safe tool to do it for them.

This said, I do not think any of the DT powerusers have the adware actually installed on their computer. Why not? There are some obvious reasons not to install it, of which I think most people with average computer knowledge are aware because of the anti-malware craze that has been going on for some time now. Following, I think a majority of the DT users (understanding the mounting concept or at least trying to grasp it) is aware of the existence of malware and will not install it when asked so, even when it enables DT to become an even better product with a comparable level of support and resources. That being sad, I cannot escape the conclusion that this little malware-construction is somewhat aiming at the unawareness of some users. Of course, we are warned several times during the process of downloading and installing, but in the end you will get the malware if you proceed through this process when not paying attention. Furthermore, I think the majority of the income you make through Whenusave comes from people that will not install the malware if you present them with a list of pros and cons. Saying that this could be a valuable lesson for some of the users not paying attention is not very constructive in this regard and it does not compute with the positive feeling I and possibly some other users have with DT. In this case, I think opt-in is the way to go. I understand your point of view, but it cannot be maintained by only pointing to the EULA etc without admitting that one of the reasons for opt-out is the fact that some people will accidently install the malware. I think this is the main concern that a lot of people (not the phobic ones) have when pointing you to Whenusavenow.

Understanding the financial strain growth can cause it seems more than fair that some sort of compensation is being saught by the DT team, especially when you think of it as a great piece of software. In my own experience, Paypal or something like that will NOT give you the amount of funds necessary to run your nice (yes I still like you guys) operation.

I don't want to judge you, but either critics do not use the right criticism or you do not have the balls to admit that in the end opt-out is more profitable (because of some unwary users) than opt-in or some sort of Paypal-scheme.

Explaining your point of view without considering opt-in versus opt-out and keeping hammering on the possibility to opt out is avoiding the topic. Leaves me to say that your decision to go for the more profitable opt-out (for a (substantial?) part based on the negligence of some users) gives me a spywary feeling when thinking of DT, regardless of the malware being installed independently or the question whether conscious decision-making based on this negligence was involved.

I'm sorry for the long sentences. After this last installation, I will now decide which non-free software is better and I will PAY for it. DT has got the melancholics, the plugins and the fishy spyware taste, Alcohol120 is unknown to me: I will read some reviews and keep the earlier discussion in mind.

Thanks DT for the time I was able to use your nice piece of software for free. I hope that you will reconsider the opt-out strategy and that you consider the opt-out attitude can lose you some (paying) users. After all, they have to try it first, right? Deciding whether you want the most money through unwary folks or a little bit less through the additional paying customers (and people who choose to support you through malware intentionally) is an ethical consideration that you have to weigh out for yourselves. But there's a point to be taken well in the criticism.

And now I'm off to bed: after a hard day of work, there are more important things in life than suddenly getting knocked up with spyware by your favourite piece of software.

[rebellion]

Adware and supporting DTools crew

of course you're entitled to have your own opinion about how the world turns around and our software.

But please stay at the facts: As long as you opt-out the searchbar, there is not even one single component installed.
So your comments above are simple not true, there is no such
thing like "deactivated" parts. It is simple non-existend then.

Another thing is that (as I stated above, all can write down here their opinions, as long as it is written not offensive it
will be accepted here) we do not share your opinion (obviously).

Where you see no problem with functionality - we decided that this will cause much more handicaps for the casual user.
So we leaved the decision to support us to you. I can
guarantee you: If you opt-out the adware, not one single
component of it would be installed, your system is then
"adwareclean" (at least from our site).

Personally i choose not to install the adware....but equally i choose to support the DTools crew by buying a license....the guys work very hard...they dont ask for much.....so come on scrooges out there make a donation too.....

The lord giveth and the lord taketh away....

[bob_chauvin]

Where's the DONATE button?

I'd pay/donate for a good tool like this. Make it EASY to donante. http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/imag...lies/smile.gif

[LocutusofBorg]

nothing could be easier:

http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/dt_register.php

See you soon as registered User

[bob_chauvin]

How about PayPal!

[mikkokh]

How about one text box on bottom of lecal text screen: that would ask you to write "I SUPPORT" or "I DON'T SUPPORT", or something. Default state of it would be empty, or maby at last time given text - when update. I think that that kind field does not go without any attention on program install, pegause it simply can't be empty. Thats why user should know what she/he will answer to it. Then anybody can't argue begause they understand that adware is one install option - for good reason if you trust to it. Only laziness would be obstacle of install operation... and when it is: shame you! :wink: