Freezes when mounting, ATIP hiding, compatibility

[Sodregistrations]

For a while I had several problems, two of which are bugs, one just a nuisance. Everything also happened on my previous installations and computers, with various versions of the program, the latest 4.06HE and 1.38.
1. On several occasions, the computer would completely freeze, the only thing helping being hard reset. This occurs only when there is a mounting action - e.g. if I start two mounting scripts at the same time (different virtual drives) or if I force reading from a mounted drive during mounting of another drive.
2. Sometimes my computers would crash when logging off or shutting down (never when hibernating). With updated SPTD, this did not stop, although it became rarer. Since there were several changes at the time when this started happening (and I falsely blamed it on the most prominent element, a new Adaptec SCSI controller), I had trouble detecting the real culprit, which seems to be an incompatibility with DVD-RAM driver. Uninstalling it helped so far.
3. There should be a way to set "hide/show ATIP", both CLI and GUI. Like many others, I suddenly found I couldn't erase rewritables, and that only shutting down Daemon Tools would help. It took me a while to remember that some of my Daemonscript scripts contained this option.

[DevX]

What lets you assume these are BUGS in DAEMON Tools?
Usually I ignore such posts but i decided to reply here to make the point for other potential reporters.
Guess what - it NEVER freezes my PC no matter how many images i read or mount concurrently and, maybe you will wonder, it NEVER crashed for me on log off or shutdown.
But I do not think you will be glad with such reply, won't you?

Do you think we would release such crap if it happened consistently for betatesters? Please prove these are BUGS indeed and not some shitty mal-,secure-,crap-ware you may have installed on your PC, not to mention hardware problems.

If you really think it is BUG - don't you think it has sense to post FULL hardware and software configuration of your PC
with FULL descriptions of what you did??! What images you mounted, on which controller, what driver uses this controller, what file system is used, OS version etc. Such posts like this carry absolutely NO information that could be useful in identifying and fixing the problem. So please, do us a favor and be more detailed in all reports if you appreciate our time too and not yours only.

Concerning your last question about ATIP - we did not include such option in DT EXACTLY because of such users for whom "it takes a while" to remember what they did with their settings. PC is a complex machine and you must exactly understand what you do: turning any checkboxes at random and forgetting about them in 5 min is not they way to control it. Anyway - if you did it it is YOUR responsibility to remember it, not ours. I suppose if you leave your house for vacation it "does not take you a while" to turn the gas off, else it will just fu..ing explode your whole house and you can't sue the gas company for this. Exactly same here.

Some users crank all settings up without even letting their brain figure out what they do, like many users for example turn "Ignore media type" in Alcohol and then bomb support: "Wtf, i cannot burn any media!"

That is why we decided this option must be made accessibe for experts only who use DaemonScript or other tools and really understand what they are doing and are aware of any consequences.

[Sodregistrations]

Thank you for your condescending answer. I am very glad for you that DT never crashes or freezes your computer in the situations which I described. Of course, if it had done that, I'm sure you would know better what to look for and how to fix it, so, in a way, I'm not glad for selfish reasons. That does not change the fact that these things happened to my systems.


The reason why I consider them to be bugs of DT is that these freezes (1.) happen only in a specific combination of circumstances - when mounting an image and doing something with another virtual drive (mounting it or reading from it). Apart from Acronis True Image, there is no other relevant software installed. The fact that they do not leave any trace is why I have no minidump to show what happens. The second kind has something to do with DT (probably STPD driver) as well, since it does not happen without DT (and today it happened again, which means that it's not only DVD-RAM), but it did happen on three different computers (reported as "Error caused by device driver" on MS online crash analysis).
I do apologise for not mentioning the software (on the main computer):
XP SP2
CD Burner XP Pro 3
DVD-Decrypter
DVD-RAM Driver (uninstalled)
Acronis True Image 8 (currently uninstalled to see if this will help)
DT 4.06HE w. SPTD 1.38


Re ATIP, that is, of course, not a bug. However, your logic is exactly what helped me to lose lots of time. The setting was needed only once and it was a leftover in a script. I forgot that there even was a setting since I didn't need it afterwards and configuring DT is not really something I do every evening as a hobby, I couldn't find it in manual and in GUI, and I did look for an answer there and in the forums. I mean, security through obscurity?

[DevX]

>happen only in a specific combination of circumstances - >when mounting an image and doing something with another >virtual drive (mounting it or reading from it).

There is nothing specific in your situation. Many people do same. And I just tested specially for you again: mounted image on one virtual drive while reading from another, nothing unusual. So you must have have something more special.

> happened again, which means that it's not only DVD-RAM), >but it did happen on three different computers (reported >as "Error caused by device driver" on MS online crash >analysis).

What kind of DVD-RAM driver? You still not provided any info
about your hardware configuration, what images you mount
etc.

>DT 4.06HE w. SPTD 1.38\

Why not 4.08?

>I mean, security through obscurity?

Exactly. If you do not know something you will never do it.
Maybe we'll remove that option at all next time from usual DT
to avoid such questions so people who "do not configure PC as hobby" will not change it by accident. "Hide-CDR" is powerful but very dangerous weapon if used "occasionally".

[patblade]

Helo,

i have a laptop with the same problem!

The System freezes when DT4.08 try to start.
The freeze is on the same screen which the screenshot in the first post.

Have anybody a answer to this problem?
Please tell me!!!

Thanks!!!

[Sodregistrations]

>happen only in a specific combination of circumstances - >when mounting an image and doing something with another >virtual drive (mounting it or reading from it).
There is nothing specific in your situation. Many people do same. And I just tested specially for you again: mounted image on one virtual drive while reading from another, nothing unusual. So you must have have something more special.

It does not happen every time, but it did on several occasions, with the above mentioned elements as the common factor. More often then not it works correctly.

> happened again, which means that it's not only DVD-RAM), >but it did happen on three different computers (reported >as "Error caused by device driver" on MS online crash >analysis).
What kind of DVD-RAM driver? You still not provided any info
about your hardware configuration, what images you mount
etc.

meiudf.sys 4.0.7.0
What kind of hardware information are you interested in?
The systems which exhibited most persistent problems (which, NB, manifest themselves in average every third or fourth shutdown) have SCSI Plextors connected to Adaptec 2940AU and 19160, which is the only common element apart from keyboards.
Images are mdf/mds files of several dictionaries and one game, protected with either Safedisc or Securom. One dictionary is an ordinary Goldenhawk's bin/cue image with cooked data, this CD contains no protection.

>DT 4.06HE w. SPTD 1.38\
Why not 4.08?

Because the changelog did not mention anything apart from a new installer and SPTD: the former I don't need, the latter I've already installed.

>I mean, security through obscurity?
Exactly. If you do not know something you will never do it.
Maybe we'll remove that option at all next time from usual DT
to avoid such questions so people who "do not configure PC as hobby" will not change it by accident. "Hide-CDR" is powerful but very dangerous weapon if used "occasionally".

That's just stupid. So, instead of just documenting the program slightly better and not hiding parts of it, you are rather willing to remove functionality or suffer constant "I can't erase my CD-RW" questions?
"Hide-CDR" is just a setting like any other. I suspected at first that the problem might be related to something like that. However, since I don't consider the point of my life to be "configuring PC as hobby" and remembering every option I've ever seen in any program by heart, when I couldn't find any reference in the manual, I looked in other places and lost lots of time. One pointer would have saved me that time and effort.
I've used DT for years and I consider it a very useful tool. I'm not complaining about the fact that I've missed something I've done myself - if I screw something for not having read documentation or whatever other reason, it's my fault - but rather about ease of use. Hidden and poorly documented settings and functionality obviously cause problems, and I still fail to see what is the problem with this particular one.

[DevX]

We are interested in your MB model, list of storage controllers you use, drivers they use, how your driver letters assigned on these controllers and what file system is used there, including RAID, compression and other settings. Also where are all images located that experience this problem.

Note that every new version usually contains lot of internal changes: we mention to public only generic changes that may
be of interest. And what is more important: we drop support for old version once new one appears. We have no resource and desire to explore what happens with old versions: we work hard and try to fix smth in order to REPLACE old versions and forget them. Users who do not want to upgrade are free to use old versions as they wish - but without our support.
We always concentrate on latest version only in order to find problems it may have.

[evlncrn8]

meiudf.sys 4.0.7.0.. toshiba laptop?

if so chances are its that driver causing the problems, i had the same issues... i just told windows to use standard drivers, problem sorted... even had nero issues with it..

[Sodregistrations]

meiudf.sys 4.0.7.0.. toshiba laptop?
if so chances are its that driver causing the problems, i had the same issues... i just told windows to use standard drivers, problem sorted... even had nero issues with it..

It's not Toshiba.
Anyway, AFAIK the file is part of more or less generic software distributed by several OEM's and also availabale separately from BHA.

[Sodregistrations]

We are interested in your MB model, list of storage controllers you use, drivers they use, how your driver letters assigned on these controllers and what file system is used there, including RAID, compression and other settings. Also where are all images located that experience this problem.

The key issue is BSOD at shutdown/restart/logout, which manifested on all three systems and gets the "Error caused by device driver" from MS.

The three systems share the install CD (which ought to be in the clear, since it has been deployed on hundreds of various systems without the symptoms).
Each system uses NTFS only, there is no RAID or compression, and there are two DT drives set at letters Y and Z.


The primary system motherboard is Asus P5B Deluxe with default Intel drivers for ICH8R and v1.12.7.0 for Jmicron JMB 363. There is LG 4163 connected to Jmicron, its letter is manually set to M. There is also Adaptec 2940AU with two Plextors, reader and writer, letters manually set to K and L. Two SATA disks with single partions, C and D. All images are located on D disk in the directory "Disc Images".


The secondary system motherboard is Asus P3B-F with default Microsoft drivers for its ATA controllers. It had LG 4163 occasionally connected by Firewire, also with default drivers, and set to letter M. One ATA disk connected to the motherboard, used for data and also with images in the directory "Disc Images" (the same images as in the first case). The system disk is SCSI connected to Adaptec 19160, as well as two Plextors as in the primary system on K and L.
This system will be dismantled soon - but the problem first showed up there and manifested often. However, I had other suspicions because of several non-standard elements on this system - there was a faulty SCSI cable - so I worked on eliminating those first.


The third system is IBM Thinkpad with BX based motherboard, default drivers, and no additional storage. It has dock-based CD-ROM connected through motherboard ATA controllers, but this reader has been used three or four times over several years, mostly for system maintenance and installation. Apart from those occasions, the notebook is never docked. The images are located in the directory "Images" of the only partition.

(On new versions.<cut>)

OK. I would have done it immediately in that case.
The problem with BSOD at shutdown manifested once again after installing v4.08. After uninstalling Acronis, which was rarely used, and DVD-RAM driver, which was almost never used, but both of which had drivers, the problem became rarer.

[Sodregistrations]

I forgot to mention. The BSOD problem started after installing DT (v3.xx) on Windows XP. The second system and Thinkpad had Windows 2000 with several versions of DT, v3.xx, which worked very well. However, as I've mentioned, the same installation works without similars problems on many other systems without DT, and there were no problems prior to installing DT (which, on the other hand, is not as conclusive as I might like due to intermittent appearance of the said problem).

[DevX]

Did you ever had minidump in case of BSOD?

[Sodregistrations]

Did you ever had minidump in case of BSOD?

Yes, based on those I get the device error message on MS site.