Is it possible to have bug free programs?

[Kinlaadare]

no bugs

Do not dream... even a 1 bit code can be buggy (due to electronics). You cannot have a bug free program, there are at least 2 lasting : the one lasting and the one to think there are no more bugs.

This is always a matter of choices... release as is, or continue to track and fix? This is a endless game...

[Dllfile]

Do not dream... even a 1 bit code can be buggy (due to electronics). You cannot have a bug free program, there are at least 2 lasting : the one lasting and the one to think there are no more bugs.

This is always a matter of choices... release as is, or continue to track and fix? This is a endless game...

that would not make the program have bugs, not means you would have hardware issues.

"Hello World" is more than 1 bit and is bug free. :P

[Kinlaadare]

Nah, I've seen "Hello world!" crash a computer... What I mean when I say "bug" is not only the code's bugs, but shit that happends due to the environment. Bug free program does not exist... even printf can crash (kinda easy to do )

[Dllfile]

Nah, I've seen "Hello world!" crash a computer... What I mean when I say "bug" is not only the code's bugs, but shit that happends due to the environment. Bug free program does not exist... even printf can crash (kinda easy to do )

Again, that is not the code of the program that is bugged, the environment is a completly different piece of software as well as hardware thus the program itself it bug free, the enironment itself has a bug in it.

Hello World is bug free it is a fact, look it up.

You cannot say because an environment something is running on or hardware issues make a program not bug free. The program itself was not and is not the cause of any issues.

[Kinlaadare]

If you look only at the code, yes, I agree. But you still have to take environment in account.

And for the "hello world" that core dumped, we found later that the c compiler used had many bugs in its libraries...

On the other way, having bugfree hundreds of line code is nearly impossible.

Topic shall be moved in Offtopic forum, or at least separated...

[Dllfile]

Yes, but the question was or is "is it possible to have a bug free program"

Simply answered, yes it is. However, the larger the program and the more code it contains the more unlikely it becomes not to mention the more dependeancies you throw into the picture will make it that much more of an issue making it "bug free".

But if we are going to argue that an unstable environment that the program is running on crashes it, ect.. then we are no longer even talking about the program itself. You can't take 2 seperate pieces of software that run independent of each other and say that the bug free program is buggy when in fact the program is not buggy, the environment or "other software" is the one that is buggy.

That is like taking "Hello World" C compiled exe for example and running it via an emu such as wine or cedega on Linux and blaming the software because it crashes when it was not written to run on Linux no less via an emulation software environment such as wine/cedega. The program itself again is bug free, however, the environment it was placed on caused it to be unstable due to it not originally written to run on it.

Most software is not developed for example to run on a machine infested with trojans, spyware, and not developed to run along side iTunes <insert your other 500 background running tray apps here> which majority of "average users" will have their system bogged down with programs running in the background which are 9 times out of 10 the cause of whatever issues are usually happening on their system. But, the program itself when run the way it was developed and on a "clean system" has no issues unless it does in fact contain a true bug.

Don't mistake conflict with bug. Take running 2 seperate AV's for example. Both may run very well by theirself, but when installed on the same machine running at the same time, 99&#37; of the time you will have a conflict of interest. This again does not make either of them buggy, it only means they are trying to use the same resources and trying to protect the the same things on the system while each one is working against the other.

The only thing the developers can do is code it to be compatible with some of those applications that it is having conflict with. That does not make the original software buggy, but as you said that turns out to be the environment itself.

I'm not saying what your saying is wrong so don't take me the wrong way :P

[Kinlaadare]

Neither I won't say what your saying is wrong.

Like truth, this is just a matter of viewing and thinking on the problem

If you only take the code, then, yes, you can have nearly bugfree program.

I just only add another parameter.

[estimablesir]

It depends on what you mean by "bug free". For example. I love MeGUI, I believe it is the best encoding software out there. On Windows XP, I've enjoyed encoding hundreds of videos. On Windows Vista, the program crashes when I try to load an synthscript. The "logic" of the program is perfectly fine, but was not written with Vista in mind. So what wasn't a bug before, is now a bug.

[snowcheetah]

With the huge complexity of CPUs and the process that make them Every CPU that comes off the line is a little different some switches dont work at high frequency, some cash bits are bad, ect, ect, ect. In fact Intel has made software that can make DNA templates of CPUs with out the need for serial numbers.

The point is even if the software is perfect in every way once and awhile the CPU or any chip in the line for that matter, may throw it for a loop.

[Dllfile]

Neither I won't say what your saying is wrong.

Like truth, this is just a matter of viewing and thinking on the problem

If you only take the code, then, yes, you can have nearly bugfree program.

I just only add another parameter.

partially agree, but, anything is possible if you put your mind to it, limiting yourself to thinking it cannot be done will result in exactly that. Alot of developers have the mentality such as "well it will have bugs" surely enough it will, they never truly set their heart out to make it any different.

Take DT Team for example, they are setting out their own goals to have the program (DT Pro) as bug free as possible. They are not stating it will be 100% bug free, but their mentality is in the right place. DT is a fairly complex program I can imagine, I do not develop emulation software so I would not really know exactly how complex, but some of the issues they will no doubt have to confront and overcome is not going to be a simple task. (not to mention the ones they already have confronted/worked out)

Now DT is dependant upon SPTD, which comes back to my last argument about dependancies.

That is the same mentality I have when I develop web applications in PHP as well as Java and Flash.

Anyhow, good topic btw, is definately an often asked question though, I think this is the first one I actually replied in on any site.

[lexikos]

Wikipedia defines a bug as "an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended."

I'd include incompatibilty-caused faults, except - by definition - if the program is intended to be incompatible. One side of an incompatibility is the program itself, so you can't put all the blame on the other program. (In other words, program incompatibility is a flaw of both programs, from my perspective.)

P.S. If a program is intended to crash, and it doesn't, that's a bug!