Announcement

**LocutusofBorg** · 30.11.2005, 08:11

nothing more to add, except this: your assumptions are not
even close, as our download-counter didn't registered all that
downloads when our website directly redirected them. All in
all, the current downloads of free version combined
(and I take into account mirror sites) would be something
around 5 millions already (if not even more) - for V4 only.

I would not comment on the rest, as I guess that will only lead
to flamewars here. I only thought I post some numbers to get
the facts right. HOW people estimate that facts is another
story.

**Vampirtc** · 30.11.2005, 16:27

I wanted to touch a similar topic in a new thread, but this would do.
Given that by registrating you don't gain much, it is not a surprise that those numbers are as they are. If you are not willing to dig through the forum, you actually don't know whats going on.
DT4 was in development for too long and when people downloaded it and saw that it does jack against all new protections, they probably think this is it.

Registration page doesn't cover nearly enough what you get and only a faint promise that IDE jammer will be released under news isn't good enough. It doesn't mention DT Pro either. Even if you go through most posts, you still don't know when, only a few hints like in a couple of months and promises that it will work.

If you wanna do business, good presentation of product can be as important as product quality.

In my opinion the following should be very clear on the front site:
1. by registrating, you will get
-DT Pro with the x functionality (add screenshots) for free when it's released, expected release date say 2006/1H
-better technical suppor
-DT 4.0 version without that search thing
-some IDE addon that will allow you to bypass most? current protections, if it is already in testing phase say so, expected release date 2006/1Q
-and whatever I missed

2. Game database should be filled with information what games work with DT4 without plugging IDE devices and what games require that you unplug and could also add a few tricks (IDE controller) that with bypass that requirment. That would cover what the product does.

This is in general what a costumer wants to know and not being banned for not following the rules. It is actually your fault for not providing enough information and not thinking ahead (like you added information about DT4 after you received complaints and even did the same mistake with x64 version when you later added that it doesn't work on 32bit windows).

**Methadon** · 30.11.2005, 16:36

Originally Posted by LocutusofBorg

nothing more to add, except this: your assumptions are not
even close, as our download-counter didn't registered all that
downloads when our website directly redirected them. All in
all, the current downloads of free version combined
(and I take into account mirror sites) would be something
around 5 millions already (if not even more) - for V4 only.

I would not comment on the rest, as I guess that will only lead
to flamewars here. I only thought I post some numbers to get
the facts right. HOW people estimate that facts is another
story.

It would be interesting to know how many customers you have, how many people has registered Daemon Tools?

Originally Posted by Vampirtc

2. Game database should be filled with information what games work with DT4 without plugging IDE devices and what games require that you unplug and could also add a few tricks (IDE controller) that with bypass that requirment. That would cover what the product does.

About this, you cannot say which games that will work and don't work without unpluging you optical IDE drives.
This because many people has to unplug their IDE drives, and some people can play for example starforce games with DTv4 without having to unplug anything. This deppends on what kind of hardware you have.

**dng** · 30.11.2005, 17:00

i registered count me in

. i hate to say this, but people(customers and non-customers alike) need to calm the f*&k down. enjoy what dt4 can do for now and good things will come. the more we bitch, pester, complain, and accusing the dt team, the slower the progress in developing the final product. it seems to me that 80-90% of the complains are from non-customers who's getting an awesome app for free. be grateful for what you have and be able to play some of your games. thanks for listening

.

**Vampirtc** · 30.11.2005, 18:18

Originally Posted by Methadon

About this, you cannot say which games that will work and don't work without unpluging you optical IDE drives.
This because many people has to unplug their IDE drives, and some people can play for example starforce games with DTv4 without having to unplug anything. This deppends on what kind of hardware you have.

Everything can be done and for many games it can be done even with the information about protection version, given that the numbers are correct.
Say if x protection version is below 3.5 then: mount with DT4.0.
if above 3.5 then mount with DT4.0 and disable IDE devices (and a small note, say 1)

example: Reunion / Starforce 3.8.200.100 / mount with DT4.0 an disable IDE device (1)
And at the bottom of the page explain what 1 means:
-if you have a nforce3/4 motherboard then disabling may not be required
-if you have ide optical devices connected to ide controller then disabling may not be required

This could be done very easily if data is retreived from a database and could be later changed when ide jammer gets released.
And you could also add a voting for each game: works / doesn't work and show the vote percentage

**LocutusofBorg** · 01.12.2005, 00:22

@vampirtc:

I agree with you - in the past, we did not really try to do serious business.

That we even not try yet has other reasons - we prepare for
launch of new Pro and then you will see how we improve all
that business stuff. You can be sure that it is not because
we do not know how to do such things, it was moreover be-
cause we where not sure to which degree we want to get
commercial. But with Pro, this will change.

However, there's also a good reason why we not mention
the Pro at the sales-site: because only NOW people who will
register receive pro for free. This might change soon, then
you will only receive V4 (with extras, but still a V4), it is also
possible that Pro will costs more then 16$ (I guess you get
the idea). This will not affect CURRENT customers. People
who buy it NOW will get Pro for free.
We have in the future so many surprises that I'm pretty sure
that people and especially our customers will be satisfied.
V4 was only the beginning. From license-costs it is good de-
cision to license now - at least it will not harm you.

The other points I agree to some degree but not all, f.e.
in download-section, there was always "IT RUNS ON 64 BIT
PLATFORM ONLY" iirc - but maybe I'm wrong, then please point me to the correct thread - I really can't remember that
we forget to add that words

Same for IDE-Jammer (and here I'm 100% sure): It was clearly mentioned from the first day on that it is not included

That you get banned because you not follow the rules is nothing you can discuss about.
Why we have such rules if noone cares a shit about them?
What do you think would happen if we not take care of such
warez-requests anymore (just as an example, or what do
you mean when you mentioned that "bans" here?)

And the most important point, I only throwed in some numbers,
in fact it is that we don't whine about low amount of customers - we will now simple do something against it

So your suggestions are already work in progress -
except for that gamedatabase suggestion (but indeed not
a so bad suggestion maybe, at least I will think about it
to make some equivalent to the sheep-value for burners

)

Edit: the more I think about it the more I like the database idea

**WingsFan** · 01.12.2005, 06:01

I am glad to hear that you have plans for DT Pro. If anyone deserves to be rewarded for their efforts it is certainly the developers of Daemon Tools.

Amazing statistic on the amount of times that Daemon Tools has been downloaded.

**Vampirtc** · 01.12.2005, 08:26

Originally Posted by LocutusofBorg

@vampirtc:
That you get banned because you not follow the rules is nothing you can discuss about.
Why we have such rules if noone cares a shit about them?
What do you think would happen if we not take care of such
warez-requests anymore (just as an example, or what do
you mean when you mentioned that "bans" here?

I won't comment on other stuff, since I am already happy that you got most of my points and even consider them.
Only the banning subject is important.
In the past people were banned because they asked questions about release date. That was very wrong in my opinion and many posts could have been avoided if more clear information was given. Even if you don't have a clue when the application is going to be ready, you can still stay 2006. And pop that information on first page. If you won't make release date, make that public as well.

Warez is a delicate subject. But facts are that many (should I say most) DT users and even subscribers use it to play downloaded games. It is actually ironic, but because of protection developers and warez guys (those that make releases) we have DT today and is downloaded in millions.
Same point is with blank DVDs and CDs. How many of those are used for illegaly downloaded content? I would say over 90%. And when you buy quantites over 200 blank DVDs no one is going to bug you for reasons, that will happily sell as many as you want. And do factories that manufacture blank media complain, they don't and they even make sure that DVD are as compatible with say Playstation 2 as possible and they even advertise as such. This is business.
And even though warez guys will pirate DT Pro, on the other hand with each release and mentioned DT4 in NFOs they advertise the product. And thats probably the reason why this application is so well know, even without other advertising and not much information about the product (unless you search through the forum).
Even though those that download are less likely to buy DT, but even if the number is at 1%, 1% of millions is actually a lot. I'm sure when IDE jammer and other stuff to prevent plugging is released, demand for DT willl be much higher and I doubt that warez guys will add DT4 customer version instead of free version. And this is all advertising you need.

And back to the forum bannings. With the latter in mind it is actually not the best idea to be too quick with bannings. Warez posts should be removed, but banning doesn't quite solve the problem and could mean you offended a potential buyer. Censoring posts as it is now is a way to go.
Or you could even mark that account so each and every post from him has to be verified.

The point to this subject is that each story has at least two sides and unfortunately for you you profit more from the "bad" side. Not that you can be "good" guys anyway, since I think that protection circumvention is illegal under some laws.

PS: What about those that use it for originals and some downloaded games. Where do they stand?

**ghost_zero** · 01.12.2005, 17:18

Well...
Even posting on the FIRST Page does not help... remember v4 release... there was something in the NEWS and in the RELEASE NOTES (there was written before downloading read the release notes in bold letters) about IDE-Jammer and x64-Version and what happened...? the most questions asked were something like: why is there no promised x64-Version, why does the game not start if the IDE-Drives are plugged in and such things...

Well that probably may be because people just read the subject - well it is probably really so

- that is why I sometimes also use longer e-mail subjects because those are read....

**Nikos** · 01.12.2005, 19:21

@Vampirtc

Warez have existed long before there was any such thing as DTools. Also, DTools is actually frowned upon in warez groups. Emulation sucks, so they say. I say it rocks. Cracks rock, so they say. I say they suck.

Warez traditionaly come with those modified executables bundled. DTools never has, and will not make the work easier for warez dudez....

**AnalCobra** · 01.12.2005, 19:42

Originally Posted by Nikos

@Vampirtc

Warez have existed long before there was any such thing as DTools. Also, DTools is actually frowned upon in warez groups. Emulation sucks, so they say. I say it rocks. Cracks rock, so they say. I say they suck.

Warez traditionaly come with those modified executables bundled. DTools never has, and will not make the work easier for warez dudez....

I also totally hate cracks!!!
If you want to install an update patch of an game you will need an new crack for this version. So images are 1000xbetter than cracks.

**Mystique** · 02.12.2005, 11:08

Originally Posted by Nikos

@Vampirtc

Warez have existed long before there was any such thing as DTools. Also, DTools is actually frowned upon in warez groups. Emulation sucks, so they say. I say it rocks. Cracks rock, so they say. I say they suck.

Warez traditionaly come with those modified executables bundled. DTools never has, and will not make the work easier for warez dudez....

You are right and not, the last sentence isnt right because now with the new Copy Protections and nobody can crack them easily as it was a year ago. Now Every Group who can`t crack StarForce 3, SecuRom 7 and some SafeDisk 4 Games will release an Alcohol Image of the Game and everybody can play it because of D-Tools. When nobody can make cracks and nobody has D-Tools (Maybe in a world where no D-Tools was ever coded

) so there will be no chance for Game Piracy !

Its all a Point of View like D-Tools is or isn`t supporting this Piracy Scene...

**NetSoerfer** · 02.12.2005, 17:09

Mystique, you should know that we don't want any talk about cracks in here, no matter if you bought the game or not. Please respect that.

**AmphetaMarinE** · 03.12.2005, 03:04

Originally Posted by WingsFan

I was looking at the downloads section and noticed that the customer version of V4 (32 bit) was only downloaded 665 times at the time of this post. I found that low (certainly there are more people who have chosen to support Daemon Tools). I decided to look at the free version download section and I was amazed to see that it was downloaded 431660 times since it was offered. When I added in the 64 bit versions for both customer and non-customer versions the numbers were even worse. The combined download total of the 2 customer versions was a meager 835 while the combined download total of the non-customer version was a whopping 504086.

Also, there are people such as me....
I am a registered customer, yet have NEVER downloaded anything from the customers section.
I used v3.47 before registering...
Then I registered just prior to the release of v4.00
It took around a week for my registration to process, and in that time v4.00 was released to the public.
So I downloaded the PUBLIC version, and just opted out of the spyware install....
That way I technically have the same version as is offered in the customers section, and no need to download again.

I'm sure with v3.47 when there was no real difference at all, that plenty of customers also may have downloaded the public version, as it was the same.

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